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Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

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Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#161

Post by mgh95 »

HSO wrote: post #115
corimaith wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Economic Nationalism is not Communism by any sense. Nor is responding to mercantilism. But the CCP explicitly considers themselves Marxism-Leninism with and their internal beliefs and government structure is structurally follows that. We consider them Communists and they consider themselves Communist. They do not consider us Communist and we don't either. You're trying to create a false conflation here and stir divis…

> the CCP explicitly considers themselves Marxism-Leninism with and their internal beliefs and government structure is structurally follows that. > they consider themselves Communist. They do not consider us Communist . And you know all this because of your deep study, in the original language of course, of the CPC, their internal factions, and the collected writings in their leading policy journals, I assume, yes? O…

> And you know all this because of your deep study, in the original language of course, of the CPC, their internal factions, and the collected writings in their leading policy journals, I assume, yes?

Perhaps not original language, but per Qiushi, the CPCs theoretical journal on their ideology, an official[translation of a speech by Xi Xinping](https://en.qstheory.cn/2025-07/28/c_1110292.htm):

> Marxist ideas and theories are wide-ranging and profound and maintain relevance through constant study. In the new era, we Chinese Communists still need to study Karl Marx, study and practice Marxism, and continually draw on its powerful knowledge and theories. In this way, we will uphold and develop Chinese socialism in the new era with more resolve, confidence and wisdom. It will support the coordinated advance of the Five-sphere Integrated Plan and the Four-pronged Comprehensive Strategy and ensure that we always stay the course towards national rejuvenation as we break the waves and sail ahead.

If it says its a duck...

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#162

Post by phil21 »

tmnvix wrote: post #121
dylan604 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen US numbers along 70-80% is imported. That leaves 20-30% domestic. Some of the REEs are 100% imported, so that's a different issue. But you seem to be implying that the US is 100% importing all REEs with no domestic production at all. That's not true. Yes, some production is slowed due to environmental issues. Some of it is a different nature along the lines of "why mine yours when you can buy someone else's…

> Some of it is a different nature along the lines of "why mine yours when you can buy someone else's". You keep yours in the ground until you have to get it. My understanding is that a large part of the issue is processing capacity/ability - not mining of the ore. In fact, a significant amount of ore mined in the US is sent to China for processing. I don't think it's a simple case of the US standing up some processi…

> Is US leadership that bad that they failed to address this risk?

I mean, quite obviously? Borne by the simple fact of... here we are discussing it?

It doesn't matter how easy, quick, or hard it is right now. What matters is leadership is so bad it was allowed to reach this point to begin with, and even a decade ago it was immediately obvious that it was a giant vulnerability that has not even started on beyond corrected in any meaningful way.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#163

Post by bsder »

rdl wrote: post #46

I don't understand why this suddenly happened (except if asked by the USG in response to the recent scare/reality over rare earths). The 50% ownership by a sanctioned entity was a reality for a while, and was an issue as soon as the purchase. This didn't change recently. So, this action should have been part of the pre-purchase review (CFIUS in the US...I assume there is an equivalent in China). On the face of it, th…

> I don't understand why this suddenly happened

I could easily see Nexperia chips appearing in Russian munitions in Ukraine setting this off.

It would also match charging the CEO with "incompetence". It would be pretty easy to win that in court if the chips are appearing in Russian weaponry.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#164

Post by like_any_other »

itopaloglu83 wrote: post #133
Doxin wrote: post #5

Some more context from a dutch news source[0]: The ministry of economic affairs intervened out of a fear that crucial technological skills and capacities will leave the Netherlands and Europe. The ministry stated in a press release[1] that there was a threat of a "knowledge leak" (w/e that means exactly) and a possible threat to the European economy. After this intervention the Dutch government can now stop or revers…

Everybody is a fan of free access and capital markets, until a foreign entity purchases something of importance. It’s a continuation of recent trends and closing markets. Nobody in their sane mind would allow a company like ASML or the likes to be purchased by competitors. But the irony is that when a non-European entity were to do something like this, e.g. nationalize their oil or mining etc. industry or a firm, the…

> But the irony is that when a non-European entity were to do something like this, e.g. nationalize their oil or mining etc. industry or a firm, the whole hell would brake loose.

As far as I understand, Samsung, TSMC, and SMIC are all closely guarded by their respective governments. And China doesn't (didn't?) allow foreign companies to operate in China without a local partner at all. So I don't see the irony - everyone practices protectionism, some are just more subtle about it than others. Some China-specific examples:

tmnvix points out the perfectly analogous Chinese restriction of rare earth exports: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45572420

China imposes more trade and investment barriers, discriminatory taxes, and information security restrictions than any other country by a vast margin. - https://ecipe.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/DTE_China_TWP_R...

As with most countries, China has adopted some policies aimed at protecting or promoting its domestic industries, including targeted quotas, subsidies to certain key industries and rejection of patents in critical industries. - https://www.rfa.org/english/news/afcl/fact-check-china-prote...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_China_2025 - government plan with securing first local, and the global key markets, for indigenous firms, the acquisition of foreign technology companies, and independence from foreign suppliers, as explicit goals.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#165

Post by mc32 »

itopaloglu83 wrote: post #133
Doxin wrote: post #5

Some more context from a dutch news source[0]: The ministry of economic affairs intervened out of a fear that crucial technological skills and capacities will leave the Netherlands and Europe. The ministry stated in a press release[1] that there was a threat of a "knowledge leak" (w/e that means exactly) and a possible threat to the European economy. After this intervention the Dutch government can now stop or revers…

Everybody is a fan of free access and capital markets, until a foreign entity purchases something of importance. It’s a continuation of recent trends and closing markets. Nobody in their sane mind would allow a company like ASML or the likes to be purchased by competitors. But the irony is that when a non-European entity were to do something like this, e.g. nationalize their oil or mining etc. industry or a firm, the…

Of course the preferred option is what the Chinese do which is to never let that happen in the first place or if you do allow foreign investment always keep a 50.1% stake in the entity and exfiltrate any tech from the venture you need .

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#166

Post by bdangubic »

itopaloglu83 wrote: post #133
Doxin wrote: post #5

Some more context from a dutch news source[0]: The ministry of economic affairs intervened out of a fear that crucial technological skills and capacities will leave the Netherlands and Europe. The ministry stated in a press release[1] that there was a threat of a "knowledge leak" (w/e that means exactly) and a possible threat to the European economy. After this intervention the Dutch government can now stop or revers…

Everybody is a fan of free access and capital markets, until a foreign entity purchases something of importance. It’s a continuation of recent trends and closing markets. Nobody in their sane mind would allow a company like ASML or the likes to be purchased by competitors. But the irony is that when a non-European entity were to do something like this, e.g. nationalize their oil or mining etc. industry or a firm, the…

USA is nationalizng Intel and under this administration more of the commie shit is coming :)

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#167

Post by achierius »

trhway wrote: post #159
zigzag312 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't you exaggerating it?

I lived in USSR, and know first hand that it means to be separated from common technological space. USSR wasn't that small, especially if one adds Eastern Block, yet it was falling behind the world becoming fully incapable to produce their own comparable computers, cars, etc.. If world get to split into such islands, the speed of technological progress will fall dramatically while social progress may go fully backwar…

As in -- "no technology to speak of" is a gross misrepresentation of the reality of the middle ages. The fact of the matter is, they were strictly more technologically advanced than the classical Romans, with inventions like the heavy plow and three-field rotation improving agricultural productivity significantly beyond what Romans had achieved.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#168

Post by thaumasiotes »

this_user wrote: post #122
tmnvix wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For context, the law that allows this all to happen was passed in 1952 and has never before been used. Interesting parallel here with China recently invoking - for the first time - their own legislation from the 50's to ban rare earth exports for military uses.

That whole REE thing is more of a scare tactic than anything. REEs are really not all that rare, and the current imports of REEs into the US are worth around $200-250M annually. That is millions, not billions. It's actually a laughably small amount. The main reason that it's mostly China producing them may simply be due to the fact that the volumes are so small that building your own industry is not really worth it.

> The main reason that it's mostly China producing them may simply be due to the fact that the volumes are so small that building your own industry is not really worth it.

There's also an element of their production generating pollution and us preferring to think of ourselves as cleaner than that. We only use the rare earths.

Compare how desalinization is very cheap, but California prefers constant screaming about drought.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#169

Post by like_any_other »

Luker88 wrote: post #61

I don't know if something similar was feared, but I would like to remind people of what happened in 2020 with China and ARM. You don't get into the China market without losing control.

It must have slipped by me at the time - what happened with China and ARM?

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#170

Post by thaumasiotes »

achierius wrote: post #167
trhway wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in USSR, and know first hand that it means to be separated from common technological space. USSR wasn't that small, especially if one adds Eastern Block, yet it was falling behind the world becoming fully incapable to produce their own comparable computers, cars, etc.. If world get to split into such islands, the speed of technological progress will fall dramatically while social progress may go fully backwar…

As in -- "no technology to speak of" is a gross misrepresentation of the reality of the middle ages. The fact of the matter is, they were strictly more technologically advanced than the classical Romans, with inventions like the heavy plow and three-field rotation improving agricultural productivity significantly beyond what Romans had achieved.

> The fact of the matter is, they were strictly more technologically advanced than the classical Romans

No, they were more advanced in certain ways, but the original contention is correct that they were less advanced in others. Notably they were unable to build domes. They were also less productive, so less advanced in an overall sense.

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