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Social anxiety isn't about being liked

chrislakin.blog

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Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#161

Post by lucasban »

bunderbunder wrote: post #145
cortesoft wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the case for so many things, though. Some people try to be funny but aren’t. Some people think they know how to drive safely but can’t. Some people think they are great programmers but aren’t. This doesn’t mean that there aren’t funny people, or safe drivers, or great programmers. It also doesn’t mean that it’s impossible to KNOW you are funny, safe, or great at something. It is a bit of a paradox, though, th…

If you cause a car wreck, you failed at driving. It doesn't necessarily make you a bad driver in and of itself - everybody makes mistakes - but if you also refuse to acknowledge and own your error then that certainly suggests a lack of competence. If you ship code that blows up in production, you failed at programming. It doesn't necessarily make you a bad programmer in and of itself - everybody makes mistakes - but…

I mostly agree but I think the nuance with comedy is that there can be a mismatch in audiences, sometimes the others participating are not the intended audience, but are instead used as props. In that case it could be successful comedy independently of if they enjoyed it. Whether or not that’s ethical in a given situation is a separate question.

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#162

Post by freehorse »

BurningFrog wrote: post #12
cortesoft wrote: post #3

I hadn’t heard the word countersignaling before, but it matches something I had observed many years ago. My closest groups of friends always make so much fun of each other. We make negative comments about the worst traits about each other, the things that we are most self-conscious about… yet every time my friends make fun of me for something I worry about, I actually feel better and more comfortable with myself. Whe…

Perhaps this is controversial, but I think this is a mostly male way of expressing affection. Women observing this sometimes conclude that men are horribly cruel to each other.

I think it is both, but males may do it more and use it as the main way they bond.

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#163

Post by BurningFrog »

dkarl wrote: post #110
BurningFrog wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Men bond by saying nasty things they don’t mean. Women bond by saying nice things they don’t mean." I think there is some truth to this old saying. If so, it would make sense that both sides find the way of the other side a bit off-putting.

Eh... if you're fat, and your friends call you fat, they mean it. You're fat. They just don't mean for it to hurt, and that's the wholesome part. Every time they call you fat, they're showing you that it's okay with them that you're fat. If you're fat, and your friends tell you you're not fat, then to me that implies that the truth is too awful to say, but for your sake they'll pretend you're a different person. Whic…

Fair enough. They do mean it, but not it in a nasty way.

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#164

Post by BurningFrog »

daseiner1 wrote: post #141
socalgal2 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a stereotype that women are directly mean to other women more than men are mean to other men. No idea if there is any data to back that up, only that it's a commonly repeated meme. https://www.google.com/search?q=women+are+just+horribly+crue... There's also culture at play. I don't know if men affectionately dissing their friends is universal but there's plenty of related things like: In Japanese culture you don…

the stereotype is also that when men don't like each other they'll just get into a fight once and move on whereas when women don't like each other they'll tear each other down in extended social and psychological campaigns

I suspect this is partly true:

Once they've had that fight, they both know who won, and their pecking order is established. Then life can go on with that settled.

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#165

Post by smeej »

ants_everywhere wrote: post #56
abxyz wrote: post #47

The problem with using clinical phrases to describe normal behavior is demonstrated in this post. "Social anxiety" has a specific clinical meaning that is not covered by this post. The post is actually discussing a very natural and rational nervousness that normal people have in social situations. The post is providing a way of thinking about that nervousness that can help reduce it, for the nervous person's benefit,…

I agree with you as a general rule. But this is actually pretty close to how Social Anxiety is defined. It's about the fear of being negatively evaluated or embarrassed. For example the DSM definition https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519712/table/ch3.t12/ or the Mayo Clinic explainer page https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/social-anxiet... . I think what this blog post is getting at is describing for…

> sometimes outgoing autistic children develop social anxiety after their peers reject them repeatedly.

As a middle-aged woman who can't figure out what the benefits would be that would outweigh the costs of pursuing formal diagnosis at this stage, I related a lot harder to that line than I wanted to.

I've always been extraverted. I always do fine in new interactions, because I'm chronically interested in anything I don't already know well, especially if someone else is passionate about it. Most of my first meetings with people quickly become conversations where I'm listening attentively and asking interested questions about some niche thing they love and their friends and family members are sick of hearing about. I get stellar reviews on initial conversations at unstructured social events.

And yet I spend the vast majority of my time at home by myself because after about the fourth interaction, something about me registers as "off" to other people and they start to distance themselves from me. I have never understood why.

I'm not socially anxious, at least not in the typical "can't get out and meet new people" way. I just can't take the never-ending hope-rejection loop anymore.

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#166

Post by smeej »

zkmon wrote: post #97

A person's existence is made up of what others think about the person and how the person relates to them. There is hardly anything else to make up the existence for the person. You are just a collection of perceptions about you, and your relations with the world. Even your money and assets are only as a valuable as seen by the world around you. You look trendy and stylish only because you align with the trends of the…

Have you no interior life at all? Nothing that matters to you even if nobody else knows or cares that it does?

This is one of the bleakest, most discouraging comments I think I've ever read, and it's hard for me (in a sad way) to believe anyone might actually mean it.

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#167

Post by jasonm23 »

BurningFrog wrote: post #12
cortesoft wrote: post #3

I hadn’t heard the word countersignaling before, but it matches something I had observed many years ago. My closest groups of friends always make so much fun of each other. We make negative comments about the worst traits about each other, the things that we are most self-conscious about… yet every time my friends make fun of me for something I worry about, I actually feel better and more comfortable with myself. Whe…

Perhaps this is controversial, but I think this is a mostly male way of expressing affection. Women observing this sometimes conclude that men are horribly cruel to each other.

Some men view this as "psychological warfare among friends" ... and it's tiring.

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#168

Post by daseiner1 »

BurningFrog wrote: post #164
daseiner1 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the stereotype is also that when men don't like each other they'll just get into a fight once and move on whereas when women don't like each other they'll tear each other down in extended social and psychological campaigns

I suspect this is partly true: Once they've had that fight, they both know who won, and their pecking order is established. Then life can go on with that settled.

yes, but of course the "pecking order" is more complicated than that. oftentimes the victor (the "alpha") gains respect for his (defeated) opponent for having the balls to challenge him and is thereby far more liable to include him in matters of importance

fighters tend to respect fighters if they fight a clean fight

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#169

Post by diordiderot »

kulahan wrote: post #132
nuancebydefault wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't looked at this topic this way, but now this really does make sense! I remember a lady asking me once how tall I am. I'm rather tall and in fact I don't like being asked that, since it is obvious that I am tall and the actual number does not matter. I responded with my height and immediately asked: what is your weight? Wrong question. In my male brain it was an equal kind of question. In the female brain tot…

Probably because it's a completely unrelated question. Height and weight are only similar in that they're both descriptors of something physical. That's... pretty much it. Height is basically immutable. More of it is not bad. Less of it is not bad. It's not particularly reflective of lifestyle outside of simply not being malnourished. It's just... there. Weight, obviously, is nothing like this. It absolutely comes of…

> Less of it is not bad.

Many men would disagree. Many women would also disagree.

Edit: I also thought that immutable characteristics where the ones we should be most sensitive towards

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#170

Post by cindyllm »

hdseggbj wrote: post #78
BurningFrog wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps this is controversial, but I think this is a mostly male way of expressing affection. Women observing this sometimes conclude that men are horribly cruel to each other.

There's a fine line between teasing, which can build up a person, and degradation designed to destroy self esteem. It's also easy to dismiss that degradation as "I'm just teasing. You're too sensitive. "

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