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Highest bridge unveiled at more than 2,000ft above ground

independent.co.uk

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Re: Highest bridge unveiled at more than 2,000ft above ground

#161

Post by dspillett »

screye wrote: post #15

Very impressive. The economic angle is a bit confusing. Wonder why China thought this was a worthy investment. Guizhou is a poor part of China, without much international tourism or trade. Wikipedia indicates it is meant to increase tourism, but even China's most attractive regions (Beijing, Shanghai, Great Wall, Chengdu, Chongqing) are under-visited. I can't imagine that Guizhou will be on foreign tourist's agenda f…

> Wonder why China thought this was a worthy investment. Guizhou is a poor part of China, without much international tourism or trade.

Could be part of a bit of internal “not leaving anyone behind” propaganda, rather than a concern for national or international trade.

Less cynically, it could be a genuine attempt to help pull the area up economically. Lack of good transport infrastructure can be a major factor among those that hold areas back in that regard.

Re: Highest bridge unveiled at more than 2,000ft above ground

#162

Post by macintux »

ishouldbework wrote: post #152
gverrilla wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's like saying unit testing implies there are bugs in the code.

If I was sure my code had no bugs, I would not need unit testing.

That's dubious. Unit tests make future development easier.

Re: Highest bridge unveiled at more than 2,000ft above ground

#163

Post by abeppu »

FooBarBizBazz wrote: post #148
bko wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that stuck out to me was this: > The 2,890-metre-long structure, which took more than three years to complete, reduces travel time between the two sides of the canyon from two hours to two minutes. Pretty impressive. I feel like things in the US take a lot longer and cost a lot more. The prime example is the second avenue subway extension which has been planned since 1920. But I just searched for a few sign…

Chinese civil engineers, and engineering orgs, are good because they get a lot of practice. In the West, and especially in the US, individuals and orgs don't get practice, so when they finally do get a new contract they have to stumble around for 5-10 years figuring out all the institutional knowledge that was lost. By the time they figure it out, the project is over budget, so it gets canceled, and then it's 20 year…

I know it would be attacked politically, but I wish in the US we would be more open to hiring foreign firms for these kinds of projects. Could we have high-speed rail if we just asked some French or Japanese company to build it for us? And we should structure contracts with them in a way that keeps the plans from being changed for political reasons. "Sorry state senator, we can't alter the route to pass through that town without re-opening negotiations which might cost billions."

Re: Highest bridge unveiled at more than 2,000ft above ground

#164

Post by dspillett »

Fraterkes wrote: post #126
maxglute wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> reduces travel time between the two sides of the canyon from two hours to two minutes. Think of it this way. Every 2 hours round trip to 2 minutes saves imported fossil. For trucking/freight that's like ~$80 of diesel both ways. PRC construction workers, though less abundant is cheaper than it ever will be. So best time to build infra is always now, especially one that reduces long tail imports. Every piece of infr…

Why is construction cheaper than it ever will be? Because wages are rising in China?

> Because wages are rising in China?

As an average, definitely. Whether that is relevant to the area in question I don't know. Materials and fuel costs are rising globally too, China's population-size based buying power shields them from that a little more than some places, far from completely.

Re: Highest bridge unveiled at more than 2,000ft above ground

#165

Post by dspillett »

maxglute wrote: post #50
screye wrote: post #15

Very impressive. The economic angle is a bit confusing. Wonder why China thought this was a worthy investment. Guizhou is a poor part of China, without much international tourism or trade. Wikipedia indicates it is meant to increase tourism, but even China's most attractive regions (Beijing, Shanghai, Great Wall, Chengdu, Chongqing) are under-visited. I can't imagine that Guizhou will be on foreign tourist's agenda f…

> reduces travel time between the two sides of the canyon from two hours to two minutes. Think of it this way. Every 2 hours round trip to 2 minutes saves imported fossil. For trucking/freight that's like ~$80 of diesel both ways. PRC construction workers, though less abundant is cheaper than it ever will be. So best time to build infra is always now, especially one that reduces long tail imports. Every piece of infr…

> So best time to build infra is always now

Like planting trees, now is the second best time to build infrastructure. The best time is a decade or two or more ago.

Re: Highest bridge unveiled at more than 2,000ft above ground

#166

Post by pyth0 »

thom wrote: post #81
carabiner wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is like a modern Roman empire. Masters of civil engineering.

Yup, similar number of slaves too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_Roman_Empire https://www.walkfree.org/global-slavery-index/country-studie...

That website has the US at 3.3 slaves per thousand people compared to China's 4.0.

Re: Highest bridge unveiled at more than 2,000ft above ground

#167

Post by bspammer »

nikkwong wrote: post #63
ChuckMcM wrote: post #53

Youtube link for the bridge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mytGMsn4wvk

It's hilariously depressing to imagine how impossible it would be to build something like that in the US. It's not only the fact that it's an engineering feat—it's also the fact that it was built in such a human-centric way. The cafe at the top, the light show with the water. These things are all superfluous, but make these projects exciting and add novelty which makes these areas just fun places to be. The U.S., in…

Visiting China will shake your world view as a westerner. It did mine.

I’m still grateful at a personal level to live in a democracy, but I’m not as certain as I used to be that it’s the only way to run a country that benefits the people.

The infrastructure is incredible yes, but the complete lack of fear on the streets, and the positive consequences of that, are something to behold. Women are not afraid to walk home alone at 2am. People young and old dance together in the street. You never feel on your guard, at all.

They haven’t completely eradicated poverty, but they seem to be giving it a real go. In one very rural area I saw an elderly couple living in a rundown shack, but they had a bunch of modern medical equipment, provided to them for free by the state.

Re: Highest bridge unveiled at more than 2,000ft above ground

#168

Post by foobarian »

bspammer wrote: post #167
nikkwong wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hilariously depressing to imagine how impossible it would be to build something like that in the US. It's not only the fact that it's an engineering feat—it's also the fact that it was built in such a human-centric way. The cafe at the top, the light show with the water. These things are all superfluous, but make these projects exciting and add novelty which makes these areas just fun places to be. The U.S., in…

Visiting China will shake your world view as a westerner. It did mine. I’m still grateful at a personal level to live in a democracy, but I’m not as certain as I used to be that it’s the only way to run a country that benefits the people. The infrastructure is incredible yes, but the complete lack of fear on the streets, and the positive consequences of that, are something to behold. Women are not afraid to walk home…

Not to put too fine a point on it but how much of this is due to a homogeneous census?

Re: Highest bridge unveiled at more than 2,000ft above ground

#169

Post by MitPitt »

jp57 wrote: post #155
6LLvveMx2koXfwn wrote: post #124

I was going to make some joke about not wanting to be the dude driving over the bridge for the load test - entirely presuming there was some more sophisticated way to load test new bridges . . . but no: https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/load-testing...

I hope the engineering team were riding in the trucks.

To punish them for building a cool bridge or?

Re: Highest bridge unveiled at more than 2,000ft above ground

#170

Post by leakycap »

abeppu wrote: post #163
FooBarBizBazz wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese civil engineers, and engineering orgs, are good because they get a lot of practice. In the West, and especially in the US, individuals and orgs don't get practice, so when they finally do get a new contract they have to stumble around for 5-10 years figuring out all the institutional knowledge that was lost. By the time they figure it out, the project is over budget, so it gets canceled, and then it's 20 year…

I know it would be attacked politically, but I wish in the US we would be more open to hiring foreign firms for these kinds of projects. Could we have high-speed rail if we just asked some French or Japanese company to build it for us? And we should structure contracts with them in a way that keeps the plans from being changed for political reasons. "Sorry state senator, we can't alter the route to pass through that…

> Could we have high-speed rail if we just asked some French or Japanese company to build it for us?

No. Please see SNCF (French rail company)'s involvement in California's high speed rail project.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/09/us/california-high-speed-...

October 9, 2022

"How California's Bullet Train Went Off the Rails"

The (foreign) company's recommendations [...] were cast aside, said Dan McNamara, a career project manager for SNCF

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