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Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

blog.cloudflare.com

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Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#161

Post by segmondy »

stingraycharles wrote: post #68
mosura wrote: post #4

Eventually all Internet protocols will be MITMed by cloudflare. Your single point of interception!

To be honest, the internet was worse without Cloudflare, so as long as they provide a good service for their customers, I’m fine with it. This is one of those. Google is in a perfect position to compete but they don’t, so it’s not like Cloudflare is a monopoly or something. At least they’re not selling ads using your data.

The internet is worse for me with Cloudflare. I'm using a cellphone router for my internet. My guess is I don't get a dedicated IP and probably behind a NAT with other users. 85% of my request needs me to solve a cloudflare captcha. on bad days I have to do this easily 100+ times.

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#162

Post by motorest »

riedel wrote: post #100
stingraycharles wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, the internet was worse without Cloudflare, so as long as they provide a good service for their customers, I’m fine with it. This is one of those. Google is in a perfect position to compete but they don’t, so it’s not like Cloudflare is a monopoly or something. At least they’re not selling ads using your data.

CDNs always existed IMHO. The world before cloudflare was just much more hidden. In general I find their take at the typical cloud business from a network perspective mostly refreshing. However, I guess they have become the major player now and certainly try to optimize the world towards their business model. IMHO it needs other enterprises entering the competition. Maybe it could be new more software defined mobile…

> However, I guess they have become the major player now and certainly try to optimize the world towards their business model.

I don't think that's it, and I think the explanation is much more simple and straight-forward.

Cloudflare established a very successful business model around a straight-forward, very transparent, no-bullshit CDN. Now, they started offering other cloud services build around their CDN. Cloudflare Workers kind of extend their CDN pipeline to allow clients to run arbitrary code to customize caching logic, but it turns out their function-as-a-service model is exceptionally good, and higher-level services like email are a low-effort way to meet existing needs.

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#165

Post by azemetre »

citizenpaul wrote: post #86
azemetre wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Cloudflare is so vital to the internet, it should be nationalized for the public benefit as having a private entity with so much control over the internet is not a good thing. Corporatized control of the internet should not be encouraged.

I would say if the political environment pre 1980s was still in existence that might be true. Today that would just mean the entire thing would unravel as it ate its own tail in the race to the bottom environment we are currently in.

You can create democratic policies to thwart this. Even something as basic as nationalizing Cloudflare then forcing workplace democracy provisions on it would probably do more good for, not just the Cloudflare workers, but society writ large.

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#166

Post by cullumsmith »

maz1b wrote: post #26

It's unfortunate that email hosting and email infrastructure can really be done only well by major players. The days of people running and maintaining their own are pretty much long gone. Fwiw, not a knock against CF. I like their products, mostly simple, fair pricing, etc. Just a bit unfortunate commentary on the state of email infra on the internet.

I've run my own mail for 10 years (postfix/dovecot/rspamd), no issues. Reverse DNS, SPF, and DKIM records need to be in place, but that's a small lift.

Well, one time I was unable to send mail to a guy with an ancient @att.com email address from his ISP. I got a nice bounce message back with instructions to contact their sysadmins to get unblocked.

To my surprise, they unblocked the IP of my mail server in a matter of hours.

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#167

Post by sam_goody »

pmdr wrote: post #124
nextos wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you use an old web browser, lots of sites are already not usable because Cloudfare's CAPTCHA will deny you entry. New but non-standard niche browsers are also problematic.

I usually have the same (residential) IP for weeks on end and there's absolutely no malware or scraping or whatever the heck it is that Cloudflare thinks it's protecting against going on in my house. Yet I still get blocked or captcha'd. Website owners may understandably be appreciative of CF. But as as someone browsing the web, I think it's done a lot of irreversible* damage to the open internet. * I say irreversibl…

As a website owner who uses Cloudflare after having being DDOS'd, I agree whole heartedly.

Cloudflare succeeded to do what Google tried and failed with AMP, and we are all the worse off for it. [Though at least it is not Google, that would be worse.]

I cannot afford to be DDOS'ed and there are bad actors that have already proven that they _will_ take me down if they could. So, I feel bad for the internet being walled up, and I feel bad for users that will lose access. And I fret that one day CF may just decide to take all my content and use it somehow to shut me down.

Meanwhile though, I hold my nose, cry inwardly, and continue to use Cloudflare.

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#168

Post by motorest »

mrweasel wrote: post #154
stingraycharles wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, the internet was worse without Cloudflare, so as long as they provide a good service for their customers, I’m fine with it. This is one of those. Google is in a perfect position to compete but they don’t, so it’s not like Cloudflare is a monopoly or something. At least they’re not selling ads using your data.

I still believe that CloudFlare means well, but that doesn't mean that I agree with the increased centralization. This isn't the fault of CloudFlare, they are just exploiting a business opportunity and as you say: At least they're not selling ads. It is a legitimate business, from my perspective. I'd just wish we weren't in a situation where CloudFlare isn't exactly struggling to sell their services.

> I still believe that CloudFlare means well, but that doesn't mean that I agree with the increased centralization.

I'm perplexed by this sort of comment. Cloudflare doesn't even feature in the top 10 of cloud provider market share, and the number 8 spot already reports 2%. And here you are, complaining about Cloudflare and centralization.

Furthermore, AWS is by far the biggest cloud provider, reporting around 30% market share, and I don't see AWS being referred as a concern.

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#169

Post by dewey »

FuriouslyAdrift wrote: post #149

Everyone just forgetting Fastmail exits. https://www.fastmail.com/

Fastmail is mentioned on every email provider suggestion thread on HN (Because they are great, happy user!), but they are not a transactional email provider which is what this product is about.

Re: Cloudflare Email Service: private beta

#170

Post by parliament32 »

mtrovo wrote: post #89

Kind of off-topic, but it's such a pity that we arrived at email as the local minimum for the best communication protocol for transactional messages. Having to set up an email service just to be able to enable authentication flows on a new website is such a hindrance that I keep wondering if it would be different if sending push notifications to a cell phone was made an open protocol..

It's because every communication protocol since has been a walled-garden with a rent-seeker attached. This is why open, federated protocols are so critically important.
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