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American Prairie unlocks another 70k acres in Montana

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Re: American Prairie unlocks another 70k acres in Montana

#161

Post by dyauspitr »

dvdkon wrote: post #142
dyauspitr wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know if I want random people walking through or camping on my land.

You might be more willing if you see it as a kind of reciprocity, your part in a scheme which allows you to hike or otherwise relax on land other than your own. And even if you never set foot on other's people property, I think it's fair of the government, which ultimately enforces land owners' property rights, to say that they won't support you excluding other people from natural land.

Honestly in the US it has never been a problem since there is so much land. The laws are also unambiguous here. If I’m on someone’s property I can get shot but on public land we can shoot each other :)

Re: American Prairie unlocks another 70k acres in Montana

#162

Post by stockresearcher »

conductr wrote: post #115
aftbit wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm gonna roll to doubt this. I live in a planned suburb with lots of cul-de-sacs which leads to long car-centric paths without sidewalks to walk through. Most of my neighbors (and myself) are very comfortable with people cutting through or around their yards to bypass this. I've gotten explicit permission to cut through when I'm walking my dog from the neighbors that own the most valuable shortcuts, but I wish there…

The majority of new-ish master planned suburban communities I’ve seen do have walking paths, bikeways, and parks baked in. Usually with some large HOA maintained pool, theater, I’ve even seen man made beaches (100s of miles from a coast). Although, they still usually have fenced yards and cutting through someone’s fenced yard without explicit permission is highly frowned upon, I would actually say dangerous when comb…

There’s a development in the works near me that is I think more along the lines of what the OP is thinking. A developer assembled around 1000 acres of farmland and proposes to build housing with half the land being open space. There are no amenities planned, however the houses will be grouped into “dense” clusters with paths through and around them. The paths will count as open space and are going to be owned by our county forest preserve agency, who will be building and maintaining that part.

The interesting part is that the agreement is that the county will be buying about 400 contiguous acres and then the housing clusters will be placed in 500 of the remaining 600 acres, with the 100 acres weaving in and out donated once they do the platting. They’re pretty far along in the process, with zoning and approvals in place. There are still a few unresolved technical issues that could derail the whole thing, yet we are less than one month away from signing the agreement that will irrevocably force them to sell the 400 acres. I’m excited to reach that milestone and after that won’t care at all if the project falls through (the remaining land revert to agriculture zoning and a future developer has to start over from the very beginning).

Re: American Prairie unlocks another 70k acres in Montana

#163

Post by dvdkon »

dyauspitr wrote: post #161
dvdkon wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be more willing if you see it as a kind of reciprocity, your part in a scheme which allows you to hike or otherwise relax on land other than your own. And even if you never set foot on other's people property, I think it's fair of the government, which ultimately enforces land owners' property rights, to say that they won't support you excluding other people from natural land.

Honestly in the US it has never been a problem since there is so much land. The laws are also unambiguous here. If I’m on someone’s property I can get shot but on public land we can shoot each other :)

I have to admit that Americans seem to have a different perspective on land use, with the sheer scale of the country and a willingness to drive for hours to get places. If someone told me that I have to travel from Prague to Germany to go hiking or even just let my kids play in a forest, I'd be pretty mad.

Re: American Prairie unlocks another 70k acres in Montana

#164

Post by anthomtb »

aftbit wrote: post #63
rafram wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two very, very different situations. The UK is a small, densely populated country without large areas of true wilderness. Over 90% of the country's land is private. The one area of the UK where there are large expanses of land without many inhabitants is Scotland (due to the Clearances), but the land there is still mostly owned by large land barons, and so Scotland has a more permissive law that allows non-destructiv…

I'm gonna roll to doubt this. I live in a planned suburb with lots of cul-de-sacs which leads to long car-centric paths without sidewalks to walk through. Most of my neighbors (and myself) are very comfortable with people cutting through or around their yards to bypass this. I've gotten explicit permission to cut through when I'm walking my dog from the neighbors that own the most valuable shortcuts, but I wish there…

I live in a suburban American neighborhood, built in the mid 2010's, which has ample walking paths and wide sidewalks. In fact, I cannot think of any newer neighborhood in this area which lacks walking infrastructure. Good sidewalks are a minimum. Usually there are dedicated walk and bike paths.

What is lacking is places you would actually walk to. There are numerous parks and a pool. But that's it. Don't get me wrong, it's great if you have a dog or enjoy running or walking. But I still have to drive everywhere.

Re: American Prairie unlocks another 70k acres in Montana

#165

Post by kjkjadksj »

dogman144 wrote: post #78
kjkjadksj wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes the checkerboarding is the result of indian reservation agreements. For example, Palm Springs is technically like this.

Well, often in the west the big square in an undesirable desert is the reservation, and the checkerboard is the 1800’s railroad.

Not always. See Tulsa OK.

Re: American Prairie unlocks another 70k acres in Montana

#166

Post by kjkjadksj »

rafram wrote: post #57
kjkjadksj wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only can you kick people off in the US. You are allowed to kill them in some places. Castle doctrine.

Castle doctrine doesn't apply outside your home and its immediate surroundings (like your fenced-in yard), and it's not clear how it's relevant here.

In texas it is merely your property not the building, and tresspassing is a valid reason.

Re: American Prairie unlocks another 70k acres in Montana

#167

Post by anthomtb »

legitster wrote: post #69
lclc wrote: post #29

So before nobody had access and it wasn't used, so left to nature. Now everyone can go there. Is that really better?

In this case it sounds like the land was used for cattle grazing, so it wasn't really a preserve. Really we should designate more areas as wilderness. i.e. no machinery. Humans can still enjoy the land without roaring across them in 4x4s.

> Humans can still enjoy the land without roaring across them in 4x4s.

To clarify: In your view, someone using a vehicle to access a remote area is not "enjoying the land"?

Perhaps you mean that the presence of a motorized vehicle reduces your own enjoyment.

(Personal bias: I am an avid mountain biker, occasional dirt bike rider, and feel the wilderness designation is harsh and used excessively).

Re: American Prairie unlocks another 70k acres in Montana

#168

Post by giobox »

wood_spirit wrote: post #51
geye1234 wrote: post #20

The UK has a much more intelligent (though far from perfect) approach to land use. It has public rights of way (if on foot, horse or bicycle) crossing the whole country. You can walk from one end of Britain to the other without trespassing, and without using roads (much). Many of these paths are very, very old, in a few cases Roman or pre-Roman, although more are medieval. Until recently, they were based on common la…

Crikey, I”d hardly sell the UK as good with land access! The UK is pretty awful in comparison to the nearby Nordics. Sweden, for example, has a right to roam in nature which makes the constant antagonism between footpath walkers and landowners that are a mainstay of the English countryside seem so petty.

Depends of course upon which UK legal system we are discussing... The right to roam provided in Scotland under Scots law is often cited as one of the best examples of the concept. The UK is more than just England etc.

Re: American Prairie unlocks another 70k acres in Montana

#169

Post by rafram »

rtkwe wrote: post #144
jt2190 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your linked source omits state and local managed land. For example compare their map of Massachusetts with this map from the state: https://www.mass.gov/how-to/masswildlife-lands-viewer

State and local managed land is also quite a bit more restrictive than the Federal Public Land you find out West in the US.

Depends where. The Adirondack Preserve, for example, is more permissive than a lot of federal land.

Re: American Prairie unlocks another 70k acres in Montana

#170

Post by k33n »

mulmen wrote: post #86
k33n wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So not locked out of the area by any stretch of the imagination and no evil was done.

Yeah just drive around West Texas and come in the other side.

Or just use one of the other still accessible western roads.
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