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The elegance of movement in Silksong

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Re: The elegance of movement in Silksong

#161

Post by animuchan »

TriangleEdge wrote: post #83
furyofantares wrote: post #81

> Silksong as a game should not exist. It is so brutally difficult that it stretches the very definition of the word "game". Games are supposed to be fun. They are meant to delight with their whimsy. Sometimes, yes, they are meant to be challenging. But that challenge is in service of fun. Games, more than any other form of entertainment, offer skill challenges. As they've become more popular they've gotten better ab…

Spoilers: Silksong has arenas with 3 mobs that throw discs plus you. Idk about you, but I can't track 7 things moving at once. This isn't fun. Nor is it challenging, you just have to get lucky. I like Silksong, but the only way some the bosses were made challenging was because of constant adds. Hollow Knight rarely had this.

Where it says "you just have to get lucky", there's clearly a typo. The correct text reads, "you just have to get good."

Re: The elegance of movement in Silksong

#163

Post by viraptor »

SyrupThinker wrote: post #152
viraptor wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there actually long runbacks in Silksong? I'm not that far in, but so far they've all been maybe 2 screens long at most which you can cross really quickly.

I mean, what does long mean in the grand scheme of things? Is a minute or two long? I think, no, in a vacuum they are fine, at least up to where I got. But even a short thing can get annoying if you need to do it often enough, which is at least my problem, and apparently also that of other players that don't mind the difficulty.

It's relative to the boss for me. If the runback is 2x the time of an early fight, it sucks. I know it incentivises learning, but some bosses really do wipe you in a couple of hits at the beginning - a number of times.

Re: The elegance of movement in Silksong

#164

Post by slightwinder »

Analemma_ wrote: post #2

There are probably a bunch of videos in this genre, but I found [0] to be a particularly good explanation of why Hollow Knight felt so good. If you’re experienced at game design none of this is probably news to you, but if you’re unfamiliar with terms like “coyote time”, “jump buffering” etc., this video is a great introduction to how video games break physical realism to provide a better-feeling experience, and how…

> Silksong is presumably using all the same techniques.

They are similar, but different on annoying details.

Re: The elegance of movement in Silksong

#165

Post by slightwinder »

sfn42 wrote: post #11

> You could play Silksong's predecessor, Hollow Knight, and not be all that good at it. Hollow Knight was a tough game, but I think you could get through it and fall in love with the environmental story telling and the lore and the music and characters. Silksong has all of this in spades, too, but it is so damn hard that you will not be able to access any of it unless you are willing to put in some serious effort. As…

> If you went to Hunter's March as soon as you found it you probably had a bad time but going in there later on was honestly pretty easy.

That's probably a significant part, too. Silksong is more open than HK, where the lack of abilities put a natural wall around the areas which are too hard at that point of time. But in SK you can easily stumble into areas where you are not supposed to be, which can be frustrating.

Re: The elegance of movement in Silksong

#166

Post by zwnow »

rkomorn wrote: post #156
TriangleEdge wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoilers: Silksong has arenas with 3 mobs that throw discs plus you. Idk about you, but I can't track 7 things moving at once. This isn't fun. Nor is it challenging, you just have to get lucky. I like Silksong, but the only way some the bosses were made challenging was because of constant adds. Hollow Knight rarely had this.

The older I get the more I find boss fights off putting. I get literally zero satisfaction out of learning whatever pattern you have to learn to perform whatever correct action, at the correct time, you need to defeat a particular boss. It's just a time consuming chore. Edit: the "boss" escape sequences in the Ori games were also entirely frustrating and and unsatisfying to me.

I agree. I used to play Path of Exile a lot, recently joined the new league in Path of Exile 2 and the balancing is so bad you have to play a particular build to beat the campaign in a reasonable time. In a game that is all about build versatility...

Common responses from the playerbase: skill issue, build issue, etc. While the game clearly has a balancing issue (which is fair considering its not at v1.0 yet). Bosses should not outregenerate your damage. 90% of the playerbase is playing the same build.

Its just not fun following a particular guide just to play with the highest efficiency possible. What makes videogames fun to me (especially action rpgs) is the ability to make my own build.

Its also the reason why I do not play any multi-player games anymore. There are barely people who play for fun, everyone just wants to win win win.

Re: The elegance of movement in Silksong

#167

Post by ranguna »

furyofantares wrote: post #81

> Silksong as a game should not exist. It is so brutally difficult that it stretches the very definition of the word "game". Games are supposed to be fun. They are meant to delight with their whimsy. Sometimes, yes, they are meant to be challenging. But that challenge is in service of fun. Games, more than any other form of entertainment, offer skill challenges. As they've become more popular they've gotten better ab…

I believe you have given up and found out that the game is not for you.

That's not a bad thing, it's just you finding out things about yourself. Move on to another game and let other players have fun with this one.

Regards, Someone who has never player HK and doesn't plan to

Re: The elegance of movement in Silksong

#168

Post by sfn42 »

jemfinch wrote: post #52
sfn42 wrote: post #11

> You could play Silksong's predecessor, Hollow Knight, and not be all that good at it. Hollow Knight was a tough game, but I think you could get through it and fall in love with the environmental story telling and the lore and the music and characters. Silksong has all of this in spades, too, but it is so damn hard that you will not be able to access any of it unless you are willing to put in some serious effort. As…

It is most definitely not an overstatement. I have over 425 hours in Hollow Knight. I stopped playing Silksong in 8 because it felt like unfun masochism.

Did you go to Hunter's March? That place is a nightmare early, much easier later on.

Re: The elegance of movement in Silksong

#169

Post by slightwinder »

Interesting how different impressions can be. Elegance is not really how I would describe movement in Silksong. Yes, the animation is smooth, but the actual movement and its controls are very crude and twisted. It's in the realm of those annoying games which feel very unnatural, unintuitive.

Re: The elegance of movement in Silksong

#170

Post by rkomorn »

zwnow wrote: post #166
rkomorn wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The older I get the more I find boss fights off putting. I get literally zero satisfaction out of learning whatever pattern you have to learn to perform whatever correct action, at the correct time, you need to defeat a particular boss. It's just a time consuming chore. Edit: the "boss" escape sequences in the Ori games were also entirely frustrating and and unsatisfying to me.

I agree. I used to play Path of Exile a lot, recently joined the new league in Path of Exile 2 and the balancing is so bad you have to play a particular build to beat the campaign in a reasonable time. In a game that is all about build versatility... Common responses from the playerbase: skill issue, build issue, etc. While the game clearly has a balancing issue (which is fair considering its not at v1.0 yet). Bosses…

I'm an unashamed, unabashed, could-not-care-less "casual" when it comes to games, which definitely shows up even more in multiplayer.

I played Minecraft with some online friends and I was off messing around, exploring, and doing nothing worthwhile, and got back to "base" where they had like.. monster farms and stuff?! Because they were trying to finish the newly released IDK.. expansion, ASAP?

It was a very clear "oh you and I are not here for the same reason" moment. :D

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