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996

lucumr.pocoo.org

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Re: 996

#161

Post by cyanydeez »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #122
stego-tech wrote: post #9

These times really do feel like those once-in-a-century redefinitions of work and labor, similar to how we got Child Labor Laws and 40-hour work weeks from the labor movement early last century. Intrinsically, more people are realizing that the former social contract was long ago fed into a shredder, and that the lack of a formal contract will have consequences. Technology broke down the 40-hour work week by enabling…

We probably need to rethink how companies are structured - there are (many) companies with revenues greater than most countries but are (in theory) dictatorships with no official ability to change course if the one guy who owns the shares does not want to. Who is the ‘demos’ in a company? Who gets a vote ? Will voting really slow things down?

Theres a whole swath of positive regulatory structure that would both improve the company and its employees, but capitalism is stuck in the delusion that self interest is the only yardstick we need to concern ourselves with.

Why? Because being poor isnt a structural problem, but a moral or ethical or laziness.

Its fascinating watching business culture basically align with prosperity gospel in that if you can grift it, it _must_ be good/just/right.

Re: 996

#162

Post by rkomorn »

fernandotakai wrote: post #159
buster wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the heck? And why is everyone even discussing this? What kind of nightmare.

some social media grifters are boasting this amount of work -- mostly young ai startup founders. the trouble is, for the amount of work these people claim they are doing, i'm not seeing actual things being shipped.

You'd think that with the 10x speed up from AI-assisted coding combined with the 2.5x working hours from 996, we'd be drowning in unicorn IPOs by now.

Re: 996

#164

Post by AnimalMuppet »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #151
stavros wrote: post #11

I don't understand this expectation that employees work more, and stigma if you go home on time, yet we don't have a corresponding stigma for when the amount of money that reaches my account is "only" what we agreed my salary would be.

It took a while, but I reached a point in my career where I just said, "Fuck it", and went for a run (or walk) a few times every day "on the company dime" so to speak.

Take a smoke break. (I mean, don't smoke - that would be very bad for your health. But go outside for 15 minutes.)

Re: 996

#165

Post by jaco6 »

stego-tech wrote: post #9

These times really do feel like those once-in-a-century redefinitions of work and labor, similar to how we got Child Labor Laws and 40-hour work weeks from the labor movement early last century. Intrinsically, more people are realizing that the former social contract was long ago fed into a shredder, and that the lack of a formal contract will have consequences. Technology broke down the 40-hour work week by enabling…

[dead]

Re: 996

#166

Post by tedggh »

I did and still do sometimes a lot of 60-70 hour weeks, for months. But being in the service industry means you get paid in 15 min increments and the after-business-hour rate is much higher, usually 1.5-2X. So if you do the math it’s actually pretty good money and you will find very little people complaining about it. I never worked in product-first businesses and don’t know how the compensation model is, but there is no way I would work an extra hour that isn’t paid. That should be the norm.

Re: 996

#167

Post by r_lee »

Aurornis wrote: post #42
grantdong wrote: post #18

In China, its birthplace, '996' always seen as practice of failed management. Because for at least half of the 72-hour workweek, most employee will mentally checkout (in Chinese we call this 摸鱼). Although middle managers know their subordinates are inefficient, they still impose working hour KPI on their team, so they can demonstrate their own value to upper management.

> Because for at least half of the 72-hour workweek, most employee will mentally checkout (in Chinese we call this 摸鱼). The CEO of one of my employers was smitten with his new China office because they bragged about operating 996. To everyone else, it was obvious that they weren’t working more. They were just at the office a lot, or coming and going frequently. When they’d send a video from the office (product demos)…

It's sad how a lot of things in life now are all about optics.

And it's shocking that it works for leadership/management so well

Re: 996

#168

Post by cyanydeez »

supportengineer wrote: post #107
stego-tech wrote: post #9

These times really do feel like those once-in-a-century redefinitions of work and labor, similar to how we got Child Labor Laws and 40-hour work weeks from the labor movement early last century. Intrinsically, more people are realizing that the former social contract was long ago fed into a shredder, and that the lack of a formal contract will have consequences. Technology broke down the 40-hour work week by enabling…

I have absolutely zero faith that the current political ruling class will “come to their senses”. All you have to do is observe their current behavior and you will come to the same conclusion. When billionaires show you who they are, believe them the first time. They have not lived through a depression and neither have they lived through any major world wars. They will be curious to see how bad it can get and they be…

The current billionaires seem yo know they're headed to apocalypse since theyre building evil lairs. They know history.

The problem is: power is an addiction and like all addictions, some can manage to cope without and others will a absolutely follow a destructive pattern of behavior

Re: 996

#169

Post by softwaredoug »

I have only truly worked this level of intensity at special moments in my career where I felt connected to the mission and people. We were building something very cool. And we all felt immense joy in the craft.

Never at any time did anyone tell us “work X many hours”

If people actually want hard working employees, maybe the answer should be culture first? Hire great people that love working together, on a cool problem, and they’ll do what’s needed? Trust them.

Hiring for 996 says to me you don’t care about innovation or excellence. It says you suck at hiring great talent. And it signals you, as a leader, may not have a healthy relationship to work or leadership. You want control, not excellence.

Re: 996

#170

Post by gambiting »

Aurornis wrote: post #23

When founders put 996 in their job descriptions or Tweet about their 996 culture it’s a helpful signal to avoid that company. The only time I’d actually consider crazy schedules was if I was the founder with a huge equity stake and a once in a lifetime opportunity that would benefit from a short period of 996. For average employees? Absolutely not. If someone wants extraordinary hours they need to be providing extrao…

I think even if someone offered me couple million a year I still wouldn't do it. My kids will only be kids once - all of the money in the world is completely worthless if you miss out on your family. I appreciate some people here don't feel this way but to me that's not a trade off I would ever make. Especially since as software engineers we are privileged enough to usually command both high salaries and the ability to log off at 4-5pm and not think about work anymore.
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