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The worst possible antitrust outcome

pluralistic.net

161–170 of 219 posts

Re: The worst possible antitrust outcome

#161

Americans have allowed the rich to become too wealthy. The kind of power that comes with billions of dollars just doesnt work with justice or democracy.

> The kind of power that comes with billions of dollars just doesnt work with justice or democracy. The government has billions of dollars. Thankfully government officials are immune to the corrupting influence of billions of dollars.

The government hands out the money. It has as much money wealth as the economy it governs is able to provide.

Re: The worst possible antitrust outcome

#162
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Virtually all monopolies, historically, have been due to government intervention in markets to give special privileges to certain players Really? * Search: What special privilege for Google? * Desktop OS: Microsoft? * On line retail: Amazon What am I missing? These firms got no "special privilege " from government, did they?

> These firms got no "special privilege " from government, did they? They did and still do. They spend millions lobbying the government to make it harder for outsiders to break into their industries.

So we're back to square one then, and came to agree on the original premise: Money is a unit of exchange that exists to compel action.

Re: The worst possible antitrust outcome

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the reason most governments reduced the rate was because economists argued that the higher rate reduces economic activity so much that total tax revenue (collected by the government) is actually higher at the reduced rate. Look up the "Laffer curve".

But taxes don't exist as an income flow, but to give incentives. Taxes exist to reduce economic activity for goods where you want that.

What gives you that impression? I get that they are used that way at times, but the core purpose of taxation is to generate revenue for the government.

Re: The worst possible antitrust outcome

#164

Can I opt out from having my data shared with other companies? Or will some kind of privacy framework like ATT be applied to it?

Google doesn't share your data with other companies.

They share your data to anyone with a pulse. Actually, pulse optional! Programs can consume it too.

Re: The worst possible antitrust outcome

#165
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But taxes don't exist as an income flow, but to give incentives. Taxes exist to reduce economic activity for goods where you want that.

What gives you that impression? I get that they are used that way at times, but the core purpose of taxation is to generate revenue for the government.

Because that's the definition of the term. The other concept is called duties.

Re: The worst possible antitrust outcome

#166
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t think of a single legitimate reason why Google should be allowed to pay Apple to use its search engine. Google is using the proceeds of its monopoly to exclude competition to maintain its monopoly. How is that norm per se antitrust violation? (That said, I’m not an antitrust lawyer and find it quite unintuitive, lol.)

Basically it should be illegal per se but since the 70's the Court has really limited how they apply that and so courts generally prefer to do a competitive analysis/quick look first. In this case, the argument might be that since the cost to consumer doesn't increase, it isn't a naked price fix so it's not per se illegal. As I learned it, since BMI & ASCAP v. CBS, in 1979, it's essentially been that the per se rule…

The current state of antitrust law expands far beyond Bork and conservatives. I’d be surprised if any of the top antitrust scholars are conservatives: https://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leiter/2021/10/10-most-c...

Re: The worst possible antitrust outcome

#167
I feel that the remedy at the end of the trial was really just unworkable.

If you want to break up google, you should break it into workable coherent profitable business units like youtube, maps and geo, search, adsense, android, google cloud (including email) or some combination of the above.

I think it makes little sense to sell off their loss leading platforms that don’t make up coherent business units.

Re: The worst possible antitrust outcome

#168
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But does that mean we shouldn't raise taxes? "Effective Income Tax Rates Have Fallen for The Top One Percent Since World War II" https://taxpolicycenter.org/taxvox/effective-income-tax-rate...

It just means to me that you haven't put much thought into this. What about the federal government gives you the impression that they'd be responsible stewards of the money you want to confiscate and redistribute?

That's not a point, actually. The only people who haven't thought this through are libertarians.

The government does lots of things well. That's why those in power are trying to destroy it right now.

Here's where you go "But it's not perfect, therefore it can't work." or maybe "all taxation is theft".

Re: The worst possible antitrust outcome

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I understand what distinction you're drawing between ideological opposition to rich people existing and opposition to disproportionately powerful people existing. In what hypothetical world are these not the exact same thing? Money is a unit of exchange that exists to compel action. That's the point of it, and is just another way of saying "power over others". A world where being rich doesn't grant power…

> Money is a unit of exchange that exists to compel action. That's the point of it Citation required. Money is an intermediary form of exchange. It arises organically because if, for example, you are a dairy farmer, there is no practical way for you to a) save enough milk to barter for a house (not only is it perishable but where do you store it all? Especially before refrigeration) and b) find someone with a house t…

The barter myth is just that, a myth. Barter has never been observed in any society that had not previously been using money. Money, in fact, appears to arise not organically, but from the need early states to maintain standing armies. Creating markets denominated in currency allows you to simply pay your troops rather than maintaining their entire supply chain even when not on the march. And then requiring that taxes be paid in currency gives everyone a reason to accept currency for payment. It transforms your entire economy into a machine for feeding soldiers. This is not a thought experiment like the barter myth; it is documented in ancient sources from India, Mesopotamia, and China.

An article treatment: https://archive.is/20250725000932/https://www.theatlantic.co...

A book treatment (that of course covers many other things): https://archive.org/details/DebtTheFirst5000Years

Re: The worst possible antitrust outcome

#170
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I face palm through the back of my skull when people think billionaires have billions of dollars. Virtually none of them do.

I talk about the ultra-rich as "they have waaaaay too much money". I do understand that this is not exactly big purse with a lot of cash that they carry everywhere with them. Still, it's way too much.

They have tons of assets and not much money. That's part of why the problem is so intractable.

People put limits on what they should be able to own, but if we extend that idea globally (i.e. don't discriminate based on simply where you were born), then most of us in the first world would also be liable to give up our TVs, cars, latops, houses etc. And then suddenly seizing assets is bad...

The problem is not simple or straightforward. It's mostly people who want more complaining about those who also want more.

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