Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The day Return became Enter (2023)

aresluna.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 179 posts

Re: The day Return became Enter (2023)

#161

Post by jama211 »

i_am_proteus wrote: post #85
jama211 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if I should make a joke menubar program where every time you make a newline while typing it sounds a slide-ding noise! I might do that…

The "ding" is a bell that is mechanically activated when the carriage gets close to the end of the writeable area (in many typewriters, this is a moveable stop to account for variable paper width). So when one types, the bell alerts the typist to the need to return the carriage; typically you get quite a few characters after the bell, either to finish your word, or hyphenate. Which makes it ding-slide rather than sli…

Hahaha, good point, you know I knew that but just didn’t think it through. I’d still like to make it though…

Re: The day Return became Enter (2023)

#162

Post by jama211 »

chuckadams wrote: post #137
jama211 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if I should make a joke menubar program where every time you make a newline while typing it sounds a slide-ding noise! I might do that…

I remember back in the early 90's installing an extension on every Mac in the school computer lab that made typewriter sounds on every keypress, including that "zzzzzzipDING!" sound when hitting return (or was it "DINGzzzzip"?) It was hilarious for a few minutes, then got old really quick, so it didn't last the day. The Oscar extension stuck around for months though ("I love it because it's trash!"). Computers were j…

Haha true, but they can be fun now too, nothing stopping us writing applications just for whimsy!

Re: The day Return became Enter (2023)

#163

Post by syncsynchalt »

anotherhue wrote: post #42
strken wrote: post #41

When the essay says "a literal tooth", does it really mean a literal calcium tooth from some animal's mouth?

No those would be "literal canines", i.e. grammatical assistance dogs.

In some industries, latches (which the article called "teeth") are called "dogs".

So that's a full-circle kind of comment you've got there.

Re: The day Return became Enter (2023)

#164

Post by syncsynchalt »

wpm wrote: post #25
IgorPartola wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make it so. Proceed. Engage. Take that! En Garde! Go! Blam! Start your engines! Yes. Forward. Eh, good enough.

Do it! https://youtu.be/K4eScf6TMaM

> Finally, the team noticed one user that was particularly flummoxed by the dialog box, who even seemed to be getting a bit angry. The moderator interrupted the test and asked him what the problem was. He replied, "I'm not a dolt, why is the software calling me a dolt?"

https://www.folklore.org/Do_It.html

Re: The day Return became Enter (2023)

#165

Post by Borg3 »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #117
Borg3 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we do NOT need to setup CRLF translation at all? Who in his sane mind uses CRLF even under windows? All my source codes are in UNIX format (aka LF only) and I use it consistent under Windows, Cygwin and UNIX.. Why make your life harder?

> Who in his sane mind uses CRLF even under windows? All my source codes are in UNIX format (aka LF only) and I use it consistent under Windows, Cygwin and UNIX.. Why make your life harder? Why would you use LF if the focus of the application that you develop is Windows? You make the life harder for these users. :-) Seriously: your argument typically comes from developers who consider GNU/Linux as a first-class citiz…

Oh, its simple. There are many many flavors of UNIX and only one Windows. Hence, I see LF as more portable way to store source code, thats why it is prefered. Additionally, im heavy CLI user so again, more geared toward UNIX systems.

If you develop on windows and only for windows, use CRLF all the way. Just do NOT forget to set .gitattributed correctly, and you are set.

Re: The day Return became Enter (2023)

#166

Post by Borg3 »

mathiaspoint wrote: post #112
Borg3 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we do NOT need to setup CRLF translation at all? Who in his sane mind uses CRLF even under windows? All my source codes are in UNIX format (aka LF only) and I use it consistent under Windows, Cygwin and UNIX.. Why make your life harder?

The language runtime will insert/remove CR for you if you open the file in text mode on Windows. You'd be surprised how much stuff cygwin itself actually does for you. If your code isn't too Linux specific try building it under mingw instead and you can see what's actually going on.

Cygwin does NOTHING under the hood, because I asked it to do nothing. I am aware of text mode of open() under Windows/Mingw. Im also aware of possibility to do CRLF LF translation under cygwin. I never liked it, and I went to LF only quickly. Hence, I use it everywhere and live is easier :)

Re: The day Return became Enter (2023)

#167

Post by aleph_minus_one »

Borg3 wrote: post #165
aleph_minus_one wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who in his sane mind uses CRLF even under windows? All my source codes are in UNIX format (aka LF only) and I use it consistent under Windows, Cygwin and UNIX.. Why make your life harder? Why would you use LF if the focus of the application that you develop is Windows? You make the life harder for these users. :-) Seriously: your argument typically comes from developers who consider GNU/Linux as a first-class citiz…

Oh, its simple. There are many many flavors of UNIX and only one Windows. Hence, I see LF as more portable way to store source code, thats why it is prefered. Additionally, im heavy CLI user so again, more geared toward UNIX systems. If you develop on windows and only for windows, use CRLF all the way. Just do NOT forget to set .gitattributed correctly, and you are set.

> There are many many flavors of UNIX and only one Windows.

With ReactOS, there even exists a flavor that is not developed by Microsoft. If you consider Wine and its derivates as an implementation of the WinAPI, you have one additional (or multiple if you consider their derivates) implementation of the WinAPI.

Even if you only consider the flavours of Microsoft Windows that are full operating systems, you immediately get multiple ones:

- the discontinued Win 9x series

- the discontinued Windows CE, Windows Embedded CE, Windows Embedded Compact, Windows Mobile, Windows Pocket series (technically quite different from both Windows 9x and Windows NT)

- Lots of variants (indirectly) derived from Windows NT:

* Windows (desktop OS)

* Windows Server

* Windows IoT (I would claim that at least for the Windows 10 IoT Core version, the user experience is quite different from both desktop and server Windows)

* Windows PE [1]

* Further discontinued variants such as Windows Phone

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Preinstallation_Enviro...

Re: The day Return became Enter (2023)

#168

Post by kevindamm »

HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #144
kevindamm wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have additional historical context, but the reason that makes sense to me is that a LF can be repeated multiple times (e.g. for double-spaced lines, or for advancing to the next page) without needing to also issue a CR more than the initial time, since the carriage is already back to the beginning of the line.

Sure, but sending a hypothetical combined CR+LF code (cf modern interpretation of CR) multiple times would accomplish the same thing, assuming there was no downside to performing CR when already at the start of the line.

Sure, I guess my point was that in the beginning, on old teletype systems, these were separate mechanical operations. Carrying them over as separate key codes made sense still because they had separate semantics to everyone at the time. Not that they didn't think combining them would be a good idea but that combining them didn't occur to the contemporaries at the time.

Re: The day Return became Enter (2023)

#169

Post by Borg3 »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #167
Borg3 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, its simple. There are many many flavors of UNIX and only one Windows. Hence, I see LF as more portable way to store source code, thats why it is prefered. Additionally, im heavy CLI user so again, more geared toward UNIX systems. If you develop on windows and only for windows, use CRLF all the way. Just do NOT forget to set .gitattributed correctly, and you are set.

> There are many many flavors of UNIX and only one Windows. With ReactOS, there even exists a flavor that is not developed by Microsoft. If you consider Wine and its derivates as an implementation of the WinAPI, you have one additional (or multiple if you consider their derivates) implementation of the WinAPI. Even if you only consider the flavours of Microsoft Windows that are full operating systems , you immediatel…

The only valid reason you mention here are legacy Windows, like 9x series. Anything NT based is happy with LF only if you have right tools.

I never touched ReactOS, but I suspect is modern enough to handle LF only too. It was targeting Win2003 AFAIR.

So yeah, I stand corrected abit. If you develop only for windows (especially legacy), use CRLF. Anything w/ portability in mind, go for LF only...

Re: The day Return became Enter (2023)

#170

Post by userbinator »

opan wrote: post #80
vmladenov wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was one of the things I found amusing my first time using OS X after growing up on Windows. Enter would “enter” a folder or execute a program, while Return in Finder starts renaming the file.

On Windows you can rename with F2, and on macOS, Command-Down will work like enter does on Windows (I think of it like going down a directory, since up does the opposite, though it also will launch a file).

You open files and directories far more often than you rename them, so F2 makes sense for rename but Enter / Return doesn't. It was clearly an afterthought as Macs were always meant to be used with a mouse.
Post reply on HN