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Paracetamol disrupts early embryogenesis by cell cycle inhibition

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Re: Paracetamol disrupts early embryogenesis by cell cycle inhibition

#161
It's interesting because my wife has been using Ibuprofen for headache relief, whereas I use Paracetamol. I usually got Paracetamol growing up but recent studies showing adverse effects of Ibuprofen on male fertility solidified my resolve and consistency in choosing Paracetamol. My wife's reason for using Ibuprofen was simply because it worked better for her. Now it's kind of surprising to learn that Paracetamol has negative effect on women's fertility... I guess this means that both drugs are harmful to a different gender? What a coincidence? We were both using the optimal one for ourselves for reasons beyond our understanding... Until more data comes out.

Anyway, I understand arguments for avoiding drugs, medicines and chemicals altogether. Clearly, everything is more complex than it seems and side effects can never be fully known or understood; especially on a case-by-base basis given that everyone's DNA is different and responds differently to chemicals. I only take Paracetamol if I have a migraine with visual aura which is quite rare. I don't take it for standard headaches.

Re: Paracetamol disrupts early embryogenesis by cell cycle inhibition

#162

I never took Tylenol/Paracetamol/acetaminophen, or anything containing it or given it to my children. We never reduce fever below 39.5/103.1 either - risks of febrile seizures are overstated and if you're a responsible parent, not a lazy one, you can see if things are going South, but there are other traditional means to lower fever. People are just too spoiled nowadays! I tested positive with COVID-19 on Tuesday and…

People do that because they haven't been "educated" (even superficially) about what fever really is, which is your body working hard to fight of the infection. And messing with it is counterproductive. They also do it with their kids because they want to help them. Also, some people have a lot on their plate, calling them lazy is not right thing to do. I have health insurance that covers me when my kids are sick (not…

They are lazy if they don’t educate themselves about what they are doing and what they are giving their children. Don’t get offended. I’ve never done anything health-related to my kids without doing thorough research. I’ve witnessed four major medical mistakes made right in front of me in Orange County, California, in some of the best medical facilities and by the best pediatricians in the area! That’s why I don’t blindly trust anyone, whether it’s a doctor or not. I use critical thinking and always look for alternative advice. Doctors often find me a nuisance, but that’s okay with me. Just try asking a doctor when they prescribe Tylenol for a fever: “Why should I try lowering their fever?” or “Why should I give them Tylenol exactly?” The hepatotoxicity of acetaminophen occurs when the production of the toxic metabolite NAPQI exceeds the liver’s glutathione detoxification capacity, which can happen quite frequently during infections! So, then ask your doctor: “Doesn’t it make sense to give them NAC with Tylenol as well, just in case?” They won’t know what to say, trust me!

Re: Paracetamol disrupts early embryogenesis by cell cycle inhibition

#163
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK started requiring that Tylenol always be sold in blister packs instead of convenient-to-kill-yourself-with whole bottles of pills. Results: "Suicidal deaths from paracetamol and salicylates were reduced by 22% (95% confidence interval 11% to 32%) in the year after the change in legislation on 16 September 1998, and this reduction persisted in the next two years. Liver unit admissions and liver transplants for…

I am familiar enough with the numbers that I am not necessarily surprised , but I still find it emotionally hard to grok that more than one in five would-be paracetamol suicide victims would be dissuaded by having to pop the pills out of a blister pack first.

Actually nowadays it's less that it's a problem to pop the pills out the booster pack and more that you are limited to the number you can buy.

So if you're going to off yourself you'd have to stock pile or roam around shops picking up.

There is a not insignificant number of suicides where people just say fck it I'll just kill myself but they don't want to go out to any real bother to do it i.e. they don't pre-plan it it's just spur of the moment. A bottle of kill yo self pills is pretty easy. Cupboard, swallow, drink down some water, die. But having to go out and buy a bunch over a few days or like drive around in your car just buying as many as you can. Like you'd have to look it up to check you're going to buy enough.

Back when that law came in when they didn't reduce the total amount you could buy at one time so if you went in and bought like 10 packs at the supermarket then the person at the till would be like ok this person's going to kill themselves so again that would require a bit of balls from the would be kill yo selfer.

I think you can buy a bottle of like 100 x 500mg for like $20 in the USA. That's like over 2 weeks swigging at the max amount. Like you don't need that many, 3-4 days is enough shouldn't be taking that much of the stuff.

Re: Paracetamol disrupts early embryogenesis by cell cycle inhibition

#164
post #83

Isn't paracetamol forbidden in the US for pregnant women already? It is in other countries

You are probably thinking of ibuprofen which is considered non safe during pregnancy. Paracetamol is pretty much the only OTC pain relief medication that is recommended for pregnant women.

Re: Paracetamol disrupts early embryogenesis by cell cycle inhibition

#165
post #76
post #18

I've always had an (unreasonable?) dislike of Paracetamol/Tylenol ever since I found out it was the #1 cause of acute liver failure in the US. Liver failure is scary. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracetamol_poisoning

This send me into a whole rabbit hole. Mostly children get paracetamol overdose. Then I learned that in US/UK kids get paracetamol in liquid form with all kinds of flavours. Which is much harder to dose correctly when the kid spits or drools it out. Total culture shock for me, as in Europe the default for children is rectal ingestion (which is probably a culture shock as well for Americans). Any how, with pills it is…

> Which is much harder to dose correctly when the kid spits or drools it out.

Never met a non autistic child who would spit or drool out calpol. I'd take the stuff myself as an adult it tastes brilliant.

> Total culture shock for me, as in Europe the default for children is rectal ingestion (which is probably a culture shock as well for Americans)

Huh are you talking about new born babies or something? I've been to a few different EU countries and you can buy liquid stuff for kids in the chemists. (Spain, france, germany, italy) source me as a child getting the stuff when I was sick abroad and the local doc sold my parents basically some off brand calpol.

Re: Paracetamol disrupts early embryogenesis by cell cycle inhibition

#166
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recently had a prescription error with my two month old baby. The doctor prescribed 7 times as much iron supplement as they intended (confusing labelling - so while I'm annoyed, I can see how it happened). This went on for a month until we uncovered the error. We had blood test done (on the doctor's recommendation), and luckily there is no sign of any damage, but prescription errors do happen (even if they are rare)…

Paracetamol pills are labelled by age (and weight), available over the counter. So quite often we tend to under dose our child as children grow fast.

Calpol is paracetamol as a liquid - that's what we were prescribed after the vaccinations.

Re: Paracetamol disrupts early embryogenesis by cell cycle inhibition

#167
post #158
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had kidney stone surgery (laser lithotripsy) in Manhattan last Friday morning and literally the first thing I was given after changing into the paper gown was 2 500mg Tylenol pills and a cup of water. I don’t know if you’re a physician but the medical staff in manhattan tend to be at the top of their game, and they are cool with Tylenol.

Being safe acutely after surgery does not necessarily translate into being healthy over decades when habitually used as a hangover cure.

Being habitually hungover is a bigger problem than taking paracetamol after being habitually hungover.

Re: Paracetamol disrupts early embryogenesis by cell cycle inhibition

#168
post #158
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had kidney stone surgery (laser lithotripsy) in Manhattan last Friday morning and literally the first thing I was given after changing into the paper gown was 2 500mg Tylenol pills and a cup of water. I don’t know if you’re a physician but the medical staff in manhattan tend to be at the top of their game, and they are cool with Tylenol.

Being safe acutely after surgery does not necessarily translate into being healthy over decades when habitually used as a hangover cure.

[deleted]

Re: Paracetamol disrupts early embryogenesis by cell cycle inhibition

#169
post #125
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many, many more but here's a few you might want to start with: "The meta-analysis showed a significant association between maternal tobacco smoking during pregnancy and increased risk of ADHD in offspring." Mohammadian M, Khachatryan LG, Vadiyan FV, Maleki M, Fatahian F, et al. (2025) The association between maternal tobacco smoking during pregnancy and the risk of attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) in o…

> "The meta-analysis showed a significant association between maternal tobacco smoking during pregnancy and increased risk of ADHD in offspring." The implied causation annoys me. ADHD is hereditary, even if if the mother does not smoke. People with ADHD smoke ten times more often.

It is wrong to claim that ADHD is exclusively hereditary. Also, epigenetics show that behavior changes what is inherited. This is a chance and a responsibility. [1]

More broadly speaking, anything that is claimed to be "hereditary" (which for ADHD the scientific consensus is that it is not exclusively but estimated at around 70%) could also be early nuture and prenatal environment. The way genetic inheritance is researched (identical twins vs. fraternal twins) cannot account for this. [2]

[1] e.g.

"ADHD has been clearly linked with numerous environmental risk factors, particularly around the prenatal and perinatal period. Some of the most robust risk factors identified are maternal prenatal health conditions and psychological distress (e.g. hypertension, obesity, pre-eclampsia, immune activation), in utero exposure to poor diet (with critical factors still being determined), teratogenic effects of certain medications (e.g. acetaminophen) and environmental exposures (e.g. lead), as well as neonatal factors such as prematurity and low birth weight [27]. Other extreme exposures in the postnatal environment (such as extreme infant emotional neglect) have also been associated with an ADHD syndrome [28, 29]."

Cecil, C. A. M., & Nigg, J. T. (2022). Epigenetics and ADHD: Reflections on Current Knowledge, Research Priorities and Translational Potential. Molecular diagnosis & therapy, 26(6), 581–606. https://doi.org/10.1007/s40291-022-00609-y

"The convincing evidence for genes as risk factors for ADHD does not exclude the environment as a source of etiology. The fact that twin estimates of heritability are less than 100% asserts quite strongly that environmental factors must be involved. ADHD’s heritability is high, and that estimate encompasses gene by environment interaction. Thus, it is possible that such interactions will account for much of ADHD’s etiology. Environmental risk factors likely work through epigenetic mechanisms, which have barely been studied in ADHD [148]. The importance of the environment can also be seen in the fact that, as for other complex genetic disorders, much of ADHD’s heritability is explained by SNPs in regulatory regions rather than coding regions [149]."

Faraone, S. V., & Larsson, H. (2019). Genetics of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Molecular psychiatry, 24(4), 562–575. https://doi.org/10.1038/s41380-018-0070-0

"Parental stress and parental depression were significantly associated with increased risk for ADHD overall and both symptoms and diagnosis. Specifically, maternal stress and anxiety, maternal prenatal stress, maternal depression, maternal post-partum depression, and paternal depression were positively associated with ADHD. In addition, parental depression was associated with symptoms of ADHD inattentive and hyperactive/impulsive subtypes. Parental antisocial personality disorder was also positively associated with ADHD overall and specifically ADHD diagnosis. Prenatal antidepressant usage was associated with ADHD when measured dichotomously only. These findings raise the possibility that prevention strategies promoting parental mental health and addressing parental stress could have the potential for positive long-term impacts on child health, well-being, and behavioral outcomes."

Robinson, L. R., Bitsko, R. H., O'Masta, B., Holbrook, J. R., Ko, J., Barry, C. M., Maher, B., Cerles, A., Saadeh, K., MacMillan, L., Mahmooth, Z., Bloomfield, J., Rush, M., & Kaminski, J. W. (2024). A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis of Parental Depression, Antidepressant Usage, Antisocial Personality Disorder, and Stress and Anxiety as Risk Factors for Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) in Children. Prevention science : the official journal of the Society for Prevention Research, 25(Suppl 2), 272–290. https://doi.org/10.1007/s11121-022-01383-3

[2]

"twin studies fail to separate the effects of genes and the prenatal environment. This failure casts doubt on claims of the relative effects of genes and environment on intelligence, psychiatric disorders, personality and other psychological variables, and other conditions."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/looking-in-the-cultu...

"Although many twin studies have been conducted (which is quite an understatement; there are almost 9,000 hits for “twin study” on PubMed!), there have long been critics who argue that they are scientifically worthless."

Smith, Jinkinson. (2020). The debate over twin studies: an overview. http://dx.doi.org/10.22541/au.159674847.78026661

"Because heritability is defined by both genetic and environmental influences, it is not a fixed characteristic of a disease or trait, but a population-specific estimate, analogous to, for example, the mean height, cholesterol level or life expectancy in a population. It also cannot be interpretated at the family or individual level."

Kaprio J. (2012). Twins and the mystery of missing heritability: the contribution of gene-environment interactions. Journal of internal medicine, 272(5), 440–448. https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1365-2796.2012.02587.x

More: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_study#Criticism

Re: Paracetamol disrupts early embryogenesis by cell cycle inhibition

#170
post #40
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vaccine-autism smoking gun that Andrew Wakefield and RFK Jr. heroically tried to find has, so far, failed to turn up. But there was a study recently that showed that autism is correlated with the mother taking acetaminophen during pregnancy.

> Andrew Wakefield and RFK Jr. heroically tried to find I'm not sure if that was supposed to be sarcastic, but these two people have done more harm to public health, and are responsible for more health dis/mis-information, than pretty much anyone I can think of. (I am a biochemist, no conflict of interest)

In gp’s defense—I interpreted their formulation to suggest vaccine skeptics applied effort to an heroic degree/amount, not that the effort was of heroic virtue. That is, that those people applied ridiculously high levels of effort to searching for an effect, and still did not find an effect.

As distinct from the retort that “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence”: It can be, if you’ve tried hard enough to gather the evidence and come up short—which is what these guys have done.

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