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Y Combinator files brief supporting Epic Games, says store fees stifle startups

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Re: Y Combinator files brief supporting Epic Games, says store fees stifle startups

#161

Post by icev »

simianparrot wrote: post #132
bruce511 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that there was more than a duopoly. We had Windows Phone, WebOS, blackberry, Palm etc. The market voted and we're left with 2. Equally, pretty much no iPhone user (outside of tech circles) cares about the App Store monopoly for iPhone. The policy is well known, and hasn't changed in 15 years. Indeed many (not all) tech folk who complain about the App Store still went out and bought an iPhone. The raw tr…

I only use my smartphone for the basics. I want the tightly controlled app store hence I buy iPhone. I don’t want apps to be able to roll third party subscription and payment options because they will inevitably abuse it at the cost of less savvy users. Epic Games is a developer and publisher making billions off tricking children into paying for worthless virtual goods. Fuck ‘em if they can’t make a living with the 3…

Apple has no issue with tricking children into paying for worthless virtual goods, they will happily host your Coin-Dosing-Clash-Of-Shadow-Fortnights if they get their 30% cut.

Re: Y Combinator files brief supporting Epic Games, says store fees stifle startups

#162

Post by JumpCrisscross »

anilgulecha wrote: post #160
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meta launches metaStore, which so the only way to get Facebook, threads, Instagram and WhatsApp Would note the trade off: this store will be a bastion of tracking, possibly with Meta requiring its bugs be installed for inclusion.

Highly probable. This will rightly push Apple in the right direction - to bring the right OS controls at the operating system level / store API level, and not leave things up to apps. This is a better world, despite short term issues with metaStore.

> bring the right OS controls at the operating system level / store API level, and not leave things up to apps

This will almost certainly be litigated. We also haven’t broached national laws mandating a government-controlled App Store. (Would expect this to emerge in right-wing Europe or India first.)

Re: Y Combinator files brief supporting Epic Games, says store fees stifle startups

#163

Post by LocalH »

samdoesnothing wrote: post #86
jmull wrote: post #45

I think Apple should mostly be allowed to run as crappy an App Store as they want. But people should also be able to get apps from whatever store they want. (Ground rules all app stored would have to follow based on technical, security, and legal concerns would be fine too, IMO.) Of course Apple would never go for that, so we'll end up with whatever mess legal processes can wring out of them.

People are allowed to get apps from whatever store they want. There is nothing stopping someone from purchasing a device that supports the google play store and downloading whatever they want from that store. I have no right to complain that I can't run Apple programs on a Windows computer, and Microsoft shouldn't be compelled to support MacOS software.

That's not the argument, and you know it. It's not complaints that cross-platform binaries don't run, it's that Apple gatekeeps development in terms of users actually being able to use the fruits of that development (without onerous work arounds like having to reinstall once per week, or jailbreak).

Re: Y Combinator files brief supporting Epic Games, says store fees stifle startups

#165

Post by epolanski »

sunnybeetroot wrote: post #31
epolanski wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

30% fees are mental. Most of my clients don't even bother/care and their competition doesn't bother/care either.

The fees are 15% as part of the small business program.

The fees are not the only barrier.

Re: Y Combinator files brief supporting Epic Games, says store fees stifle startups

#166

Post by sunnybeetroot »

epolanski wrote: post #165
sunnybeetroot wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fees are 15% as part of the small business program.

The fees are not the only barrier.

I agree, the review process can be painful where your app gets rejected for guidelines that aren’t necessary for other platforms like web.

Re: Y Combinator files brief supporting Epic Games, says store fees stifle startups

#167

Post by close04 »

anilgulecha wrote: post #141
earthnail wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not until alternative stores become competitive. Realistically they have such a monopoly thar you end up in a chiclen and egg situation. Their monopoly is so large that noone wants to distribute via small alt stores, meaning alt stores never get large.

A chicken and egg problem is highly unlikely. Here's a few probable situations: 1) A fdroid equivalent pops up, which them becomes a collection of fantastic open source apps, and soon develops a strong user base. 2) Google launches play store for iPhone, which will on day 1 get millions of users. 3) Meta launches metaStore, which so the only way to get Facebook, threads, Instagram and WhatsApp. This becomes the faste…

On #3, Meta could have done it for Android and I don't think they did. Actually if Android is a god estimation of how it looks like with 3rd party stores, it won't be super disruptive.

Unless the iOS market is so lucrative it will garner far more interest.

Re: Y Combinator files brief supporting Epic Games, says store fees stifle startups

#168

Post by nabla9 »

jmull wrote: post #45

I think Apple should mostly be allowed to run as crappy an App Store as they want. But people should also be able to get apps from whatever store they want. (Ground rules all app stored would have to follow based on technical, security, and legal concerns would be fine too, IMO.) Of course Apple would never go for that, so we'll end up with whatever mess legal processes can wring out of them.

> Of course Apple would never go for that

They do in EU, because they were forced to.

AltStore PAL https://altstore.io/

Buildstore https://builds.io/

Aptoide https://en.aptoide.com

.. and so on

Re: Y Combinator files brief supporting Epic Games, says store fees stifle startups

#169

Post by Nevermark »

jterrys wrote: post #150
jmull wrote: post #45

I think Apple should mostly be allowed to run as crappy an App Store as they want. But people should also be able to get apps from whatever store they want. (Ground rules all app stored would have to follow based on technical, security, and legal concerns would be fine too, IMO.) Of course Apple would never go for that, so we'll end up with whatever mess legal processes can wring out of them.

I agree with you in principle. But I also, I guess, kinda just have a dumb thought about this whole ordeal. Broadly speaking, we are in a position where we, the general public with the backing of the government, want to change how a private corporation uses it's products that it sold to us. Not for any other reason that would shield us from harm or prevent risk, but rather because the corporation's products are so su…

Large corporations with large marketshare can easily do significantly uncompetitive things, with little effort on their part.

No monopoly required.

All that is required is that they have large marketshare, an important product, and it is difficult for users to change to alternatives, or avoid its uncompetitive behavior.

Choosing a phone involves balancing numerous features of devices. There is no phone market with the thousands of competing devices it would take to really cover what a customer might ideally want. So choices often balance so many things, involve so much practical investment, that they make switching devices over a few things, or even many things, from awfully unpleasant to very difficult.

And, with great market power, comes great responsibility: to not become a barrier to competitive innovation and hard work.

By definition, Apple's strict gatekeeping App Store, a significant feature on a significant general purpose computing platform, is anti-competitive. There is no technical reason why side loading or side-stores couldn't thrive, on such a general purpose device intertwined in all our lives.

Onerous fees and terms and selective limitation (relative to Apple's own offerings) for developers make it even more anticompetitive.

Of course, anyone who likes having fewer options, or just the options they have now, is free to not explore others. For now and forever. Amen.

Re: Y Combinator files brief supporting Epic Games, says store fees stifle startups

#170

Post by tliltocatl »

labcomputer wrote: post #143
echelon wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > But people should also be able to get apps from whatever store they want. The web. Without scare walls or hidden "enable downloads" menu settings. And apps should no longer have to use first party payment rails, first party authentication/sign in rails, or be forced to jump through review or upgrade hoops.

I don’t know whether to feel happy or sad for you. Happy because you have nobody in your life in a vulnerable position to be taken advantage of the inevitable malware that will be installed on their device as a result of your wish. Or sad because those people are most likely to be grandparents or elderly aunts and uncles. Perhaps you never even got to know them.

Yet another "think of the children", except now it's think of the elderly. We CAN NOT make the world safe for everyone without also making it a total crapsack for everyone. It's simply not an option that exists.
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