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US national debt reaches a record $37T, the Treasury Department reports

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Re: US national debt reaches a record $37T, the Treasury Department reports

#161

Post by mindslight »

cosmicgadget wrote: post #134
mindslight wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No? People used to get mad when someone said wrestling was fake. It wasn't because they were in on it and pretending to be mad, but rather because they wanted to believe. A very similar dynamic to Trumpism, come to think of it.

Huh. My understanding of the definition is that both parties realize it is fiction and agree to pretend it is not.

Both parties (the actors) that are in on it, yes. But not the audience, at least traditionally. Maybe the audience now, at least somewhat? These things aren't discrete states in fragmented post-reality. That dynamic was starting to show back then (hence people getting angry from the compression of cognitive dissonance), but it's one of the main dynamics these days.

Re: US national debt reaches a record $37T, the Treasury Department reports

#162

Post by cosmicgadget »

jeff_carr wrote: post #137
cosmicgadget wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One party has done considerably better at reducing the deficit in recent history.

Ridiculous claim. Both parties are exactly the same on this issue. It's politics and nothing more. No one has any idea what to do about it. Well, mathematicians do, but nobody listens to us.

Not only does the data show this to be false, it's mathematically inprobable for both major parties to be "exactly the same". That is the only ridiculous claim in this thread.

I guarantee both parties know how to balance the budget but one requires a pledge to never raise taxes and the other knows they will lose if they propose it.

Re: US national debt reaches a record $37T, the Treasury Department reports

#163

Post by cosmicgadget »

theoreticalmal wrote: post #155
AndrewDucker wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they're the same, then why does the deficit direction look very different for each of them? https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/dbroussa/553166/241096/origi...

What does that graph look like in the last decade? Surely Covid times show a big blue spike?

You're kidding right? Do you know who passed an unfunded corporate tax cut in the run up to covid and then the PPP in 2020?

Re: US national debt reaches a record $37T, the Treasury Department reports

#164

Post by _DeadFred_ »

bearl wrote: post #153
hypeatei wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Constantly posting "both sides!!" lacks nuance and is unhelpful. The last budget surplus was under Bill Clinton, a Democrat. Generally, Democrats have to fix the fallout of Republican fiscal policy and get blamed for it since the effects can start to show years later (like Trumps tax cuts)

Chris Hitchens used to like to remind people that Clinton was actually a conservative whose political success was due largely to the longevity of the appeal of the “southern democrat” to certain segments of society. His granting of MFN trade status to China is relevant to “his” budget surplus, as is the fact that the internet happened and the unipolar moment began while he was president. Clinton didn’t invent the int…

When an argument is defeated by facts switch to attacking individuals!

Re: US national debt reaches a record $37T, the Treasury Department reports

#165

Post by bearl »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #164
bearl wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chris Hitchens used to like to remind people that Clinton was actually a conservative whose political success was due largely to the longevity of the appeal of the “southern democrat” to certain segments of society. His granting of MFN trade status to China is relevant to “his” budget surplus, as is the fact that the internet happened and the unipolar moment began while he was president. Clinton didn’t invent the int…

When an argument is defeated by facts switch to attacking individuals!

Not sure if you’re joking. The parent mentioned Clinton’s surplus so I referenced Clinton’s famous welfare queen reforms.

If I wanted to attack the character of William Jefferson Clinton, I would have plenty of facts to draw from there as well, like sexually assaulting an intern in the Oval Office and lying to us with “it depends on what your definition of is is”[0], which I’d note our non-biased hard-hitting media elites collectively shrugged off. Or I might allude to Jennifer Flowers, or Epstein, or a really long list of other ghoulish Clintonian acts.

[0] One can easily see this as the approximate moment the executive became unaccountable, a trend that’s continued (slippery slopes are real) and which many are now fallatiosly calling factism. It’s not, it’s just unaccountability in the same vein as Clinton’s sexusl assault.

Re: US national debt reaches a record $37T, the Treasury Department reports

#166

Post by stephen_g »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #160
stephen_g wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would a currency issuer make the decision to default on bonds it's issued, when it can always issue new bonds and roll them over, or if it wanted to the Fed can always just buy the bonds back? Don't think of the US (or any monetarily sovereign Government) as having the constraints of a household or business... It's fundamentally different and we make major errors (like the crazy idea the US would default) when we…

Didn't NYC have a crisis in 1975 where the banks didn't want to buy their bonds anymore?

NYC isn't a currency issuer. They don't control a central bank.

Re: US national debt reaches a record $37T, the Treasury Department reports

#167

Post by tstrimple »

mindslight wrote: post #161
cosmicgadget wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh. My understanding of the definition is that both parties realize it is fiction and agree to pretend it is not.

Both parties (the actors) that are in on it, yes. But not the audience, at least traditionally. Maybe the audience now, at least somewhat? These things aren't discrete states in fragmented post-reality. That dynamic was starting to show back then (hence people getting angry from the compression of cognitive dissonance), but it's one of the main dynamics these days.

My mind immediately went to this: https://youtu.be/h6pRbwu4Pf0

Could find many such examples today featuring red hats.

Re: US national debt reaches a record $37T, the Treasury Department reports

#168

Post by showdeaduser »

epolanski wrote: post #78
coffeemug wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice third world countries are very unproductive, and it's immediately visible to the naked eye. Many shops and restaurants have half a dozen people (or more!) taking the order and handling the check, there are entire extended families manning market stalls that barely sell anything, cabbies just hang out all day waiting for a ride, etc. You might be theoretically right, but I think that's not actually how it…

I have made a very specific example, you extrapolated some other data from it. If you want a clearer comparison take Japan and tell me their average driver, nurse, teacher, policeman, factory worker, carpenter, painter, car mechanic, shop assistant, barista, bank clerk, etc does "less" or "less efficiently" than his american counter part. Because there is a huge difference in measured productivity between them. There…

[dead]

Re: US national debt reaches a record $37T, the Treasury Department reports

#169

Post by _DeadFred_ »

bearl wrote: post #165
_DeadFred_ wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When an argument is defeated by facts switch to attacking individuals!

Not sure if you’re joking. The parent mentioned Clinton’s surplus so I referenced Clinton’s famous welfare queen reforms. If I wanted to attack the character of William Jefferson Clinton, I would have plenty of facts to draw from there as well, like sexually assaulting an intern in the Oval Office and lying to us with “it depends on what your definition of is is”[0], which I’d note our non-biased hard-hitting media e…

More character attacks to try and counter the cold hard statics truthfully presented.

Unaccountable? Old boy balanced the budget, you know, the topic being discussed (not the Epstein file, who is it not releasing those again?). He came, he took account, he won. How much has Trump, the budget fixer, added to the budget again? And what does that number look like compared to past Presidents?

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