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Project Hyperion: Interstellar ship design competition

projecthyperion.org

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Re: Project Hyperion: Interstellar ship design competition

#161

Post by fc417fc802 »

Apocryphon wrote: post #156
fc417fc802 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This got me thinking. There are fairly hard takes on most fictional technology but I don't know that I've ever come across one for artificial gravity. At least no examples immediately come to mind. I guess that's just too far out in the fictional physics system weeds for even the more dedicated of authors.

Gravity is one of the four fundamental interactions (albeit the weakest one), perhaps trying to create it artificially is a bit beyond even hypothetical physics. Sounds like the latest suggestion for it is from 2016: https://www.sciencealert.com/a-mathematician-has-proposed-a-... > Now, Füzfa has shown, mathematically speaking, that by stacking large superconducting electromagnets we would be able to produce a very w…

Right, but in a fictional universe we aren't constrained by real world physics. Yet no "hard" takes on artificial gravity come to mind. I assume this is partly because any explanation would be difficult to work into an interesting narrative (unless you consider physics journal articles and mathematical equations interesting) and also because "simulating" the downstream impacts of changes at such a low level of physics just sounds incredibly daunting and probably near impossible to get right.

The linked article is interesting. I'm amused by the mental image of the Millennium Falcon crumpling like a tin can into a singularity when magnets of ludicrous strength under the deck plating are suddenly switched on.

Re: Project Hyperion: Interstellar ship design competition

#162

Post by jandrese »

tgbugs wrote: post #160

One thing I find amusing about generation ships is that the prerequisite understanding of systems ecology, biology, political organization, etc. required to actually make them successful completely obviates the need to actually go anywhere with them. If you can somehow obtain the knowledge of how to get a sexually reproducing population of n awake behaving human beings to successfully live in a tin can for 500 years…

The fundamental problem with Ark ships. They're just much harder to build versions of fully self-sufficient orbital colonies. Not only do you need to install the enormous thrusters, but you have to be able to operate without any inputs at all. No solar power. No imports of mass from asteroids or elsewhere. No increasing genetic diversity via swapping people between other colonies. What advantage is there in moving your orbital colony to a different solar system?

Re: Project Hyperion: Interstellar ship design competition

#163

Post by jandrese »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #125
os2warpman wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Empirically totally untrue as to be trivially disproven by like half of wealthy social media. A week in Bali is not the same thing as interstellar travel…

> A week in Bali Are you genuinely unfamiliar with the folks who launch off on their own into the deep wilderness for years on end. Not only for vanity, but largely to do groundbreaking research?

Sure, individual weirdos can do that for a few years. But you're talking about literally millennia of travel. Hundreds of generations of people living their entire life on the bus never getting to the destination before they die. Trapped out in the cold empty void of space with literally nothing around, for their entire lives, and the lives of their children, and their children's children, for longer than we have had the written word. Never even knowing if the destination is worth it.

Re: Project Hyperion: Interstellar ship design competition

#165

Post by Ekaros »

jandrese wrote: post #162
tgbugs wrote: post #160

One thing I find amusing about generation ships is that the prerequisite understanding of systems ecology, biology, political organization, etc. required to actually make them successful completely obviates the need to actually go anywhere with them. If you can somehow obtain the knowledge of how to get a sexually reproducing population of n awake behaving human beings to successfully live in a tin can for 500 years…

The fundamental problem with Ark ships. They're just much harder to build versions of fully self-sufficient orbital colonies. Not only do you need to install the enormous thrusters, but you have to be able to operate without any inputs at all. No solar power. No imports of mass from asteroids or elsewhere. No increasing genetic diversity via swapping people between other colonies. What advantage is there in moving yo…

Slightly less chance of dying in very tiny solar system destroying effect. Traded to much higher risk of dying for some other risk or system failure. Anything affecting solar system likely affects also any ark on the way... And well inside solar system you might be able to get some support. Where as outside none...

Just what sort of population would enter that risk profile? Especially when there is little to gain for themselves.

Re: Project Hyperion: Interstellar ship design competition

#166

Post by Ekaros »

munificent wrote: post #100
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we are never leaving this solar system unless we discover some new physics to get around our speed limitations The winning proposal coasts at 0.01c. Propulsion systems--not the speed of light--and thus engineering, not phsyics, are the relevant limitors.

I am increasingly certain that culture is by far the biggest limiting factor when it comes to large-scale problem solving now and in the future. We couldn't even reliably get people to put a piece of fabric over their face to stop killing their own relatives. Even if we could build a generation ship, it would turn into an Event Horizon hellscape if we don't figure out better cultural, communication, and sociological…

Yeah. Entirely failed to lock up and isolate the vulnerable for their own good. Which really would have been the altruistic choice. If we are not even ready and capable to do the most obvious and reasonable. How can we expect anything better?

Re: Project Hyperion: Interstellar ship design competition

#167

Post by carpdiem »

namanyayg wrote: post #117
cvoss wrote: post #21

This feels like the grown-up ideological successor to the International Space Settlement Design Competition for high school students. That was (is? anyone still in the know?) a competition that ran for years out of NASA Houston as a pet project of some engineers and contractors who wanted to engage and cultivate the next generation of aerospace minds. Teams would submit proposals for the design of a permanent space s…

It was indeed incredible. Battled out in a pan Asia round, won it, and got invited to the ISSDC at the Kennedy Space Center in Florida. Felt so fortunate learning from engineers at Boeing and NASA. Incredible experience for a 15yo kid from India. Coincidentally, it has been exactly 10 years since and my photos app resurfaced some of the memories. Good times.

Another ISSDC alum here, but from a little more than a decade earlier. It really was a unique experience. I remember the finals at Kennedy Space Center fully exercised the extent of your mental and physical stamina both. It also delivered lots of surprisingly applicable lessons for startup life around coordinating technical teams in high-stress, high-stakes environments.

Re: Project Hyperion: Interstellar ship design competition

#168

Post by jval43 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #112
munificent wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am increasingly certain that culture is by far the biggest limiting factor when it comes to large-scale problem solving now and in the future. We couldn't even reliably get people to put a piece of fabric over their face to stop killing their own relatives. Even if we could build a generation ship, it would turn into an Event Horizon hellscape if we don't figure out better cultural, communication, and sociological…

> We couldn't even reliably get people to put a piece of fabric over their face Rural Americans couldn’t. But I don’t see anyone proposing we put high school dropouts and polio patients in space. China, India and Japan managed to pass that test just fine. I imagine one of the former two will be the first to colonise deep space.

Urban Europeans had just as much trouble (speaking as one).

Re: Project Hyperion: Interstellar ship design competition

#170

Post by Ekaros »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #29
virgildotcodes wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading through this in detail just cements that we are never leaving this solar system unless we discover some new physics to get around our speed limitations.

> we are never leaving this solar system unless we discover some new physics to get around our speed limitations The winning proposal coasts at 0.01c. Propulsion systems--not the speed of light--and thus engineering, not phsyics, are the relevant limitors.

Energy is the limit. If used Wolfram Alpha right for reasonable comparison that is largest cruise ship with mass of 248663000 kg to speed up to 0.01c mentioned the kinetic energy would be 2.9 times the worlds fossil fuel reserves...

Then double that to slow down. And remember efficiency and that well you need to spend some to keep people alive...

Seems like energy in general is one of the true problems.

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