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Meta's Vision for Superintelligence

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Re: Meta's Vision for Superintelligence

#161

Post by benterix »

Gud wrote: post #107
benterix wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the government would tax your higher than average tech wage till your take home pay would match that of a train conductor's or bus driver's, like in Western Europe I live in Europe and earn ca. 6 times more than my friend who is a bus driver in the same city. We both have access to free education and, if we wish, also free healthcare, for which I am paying slightly more, but I really don't mind.

If you earn 6 times more than your friend who is a bus driver, you live in a place that has an unusually high income disparity for Europe.

I have a good job, most of my friends earn, say, 4x bus driver salary.

Re: Meta's Vision for Superintelligence

#162

Post by benterix »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #160
benterix wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the government would tax your higher than average tech wage till your take home pay would match that of a train conductor's or bus driver's, like in Western Europe I live in Europe and earn ca. 6 times more than my friend who is a bus driver in the same city. We both have access to free education and, if we wish, also free healthcare, for which I am paying slightly more, but I really don't mind.

That doesn't scan. In which Western European country is that massive difference? Either you have a FANG wage or your friend has a poverty wage because here's how it's in Austria SW Dev wage 3k net/month, bus driver 2,5k. There's no 6x difference here. So you're proving my point that it works for you when income distribution is not egalitarian because you wouldn't be very happy if you earned the same as your friend.

My salary is quite good, my friends in the field earn a bit less, but the gap is still there.

To put things in perspective, according to this website[0], bus drivers earn ca. €20 per hour, within some quite limited margin. I don't know if this data reflects reality. However, the data for SWE show a much, much wider margin[1]. So it would make much more sense to compare the medians, and this gives only 2x difference. A big gap still, but not enormous as in my case.

[0] https://www.salaryexpert.com/salary/job/bus-driver/germany [1] https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/germany

Re: Meta's Vision for Superintelligence

#163

Post by FirmwareBurner »

benterix wrote: post #162
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't scan. In which Western European country is that massive difference? Either you have a FANG wage or your friend has a poverty wage because here's how it's in Austria SW Dev wage 3k net/month, bus driver 2,5k. There's no 6x difference here. So you're proving my point that it works for you when income distribution is not egalitarian because you wouldn't be very happy if you earned the same as your friend.

My salary is quite good, my friends in the field earn a bit less, but the gap is still there. To put things in perspective, according to this website[0], bus drivers earn ca. €20 per hour, within some quite limited margin. I don't know if this data reflects reality. However, the data for SWE show a much, much wider margin[1]. So it would make much more sense to compare the medians, and this gives only 2x difference.…

You're comparing apples to oranges here. Dataset of levels.fyi heavily skews towards FAANGs and big-tech, not entire SW sector of a nation.

Granted, I was also guilty of that since I was comparing the salary of a tram driver for the local state public transport company where they get great benefits and the union always negotiates top salaries since they have a monopoly and can just increase the bus fare to their customers whenever they need a raise.

But my point still stands. Why bother going to uni to become and engineer in the competitive private sector, if you're gonna net only 500 Euros more than a driver or any other government annex union job?

Re: Meta's Vision for Superintelligence

#164

Post by bamboozled »

Mars008 wrote: post #159
lvl155 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I commented on Zuck on HN I got a warning. That said, this stuff confirms for the 100th time that he is out of touch with reality. Perhaps that’s why he wanted to make VR work so badly. I think he might try to change Co’s name again since Meta doesn’t fit the bill anymore. How about they buy Intel and reverse merge just for the name?

He needs to keep investors optimistic about Meta. Moonshot projects, fairy tales work if there is nothing else. Musk uses them too when promotes Tesla.

I've only read about his remarks and it already feels like his taking a leaf from the Elon Musk keep investors hyped playbook.

Re: Meta's Vision for Superintelligence

#165

Post by jonplackett »

raghavtoshniwal wrote: post #140
jonplackett wrote: post #7

When prompt injection is solved I’ll believe super intelligence is possible.

Isn't that a bit like saying that if common cold is solved, you will believe that human intelligence is possible? Why isn't it super intelligent if there are security flaws in the system. [Not taking a stance on wether super intelligence is possible but your condition seems a bit arbitrary]

I guess what I mean is - if it can be easily derailed from its super intelligence - then it can’t be that intelligent. It’s just a tool, doing as it’s told.

Re: Meta's Vision for Superintelligence

#166

Post by ta12653421 »

lvl155 wrote: post #45
hnthrow90348765 wrote: post #34

This stuff is naive. There's a bunch of people who want a large income (wealth) disparity, and they will fight to preserve it unless you give them an equivalent station in the 'new world'. But you will still need to sustain ex-workers if they can't get normal jobs, and those same people at the top will not tolerate the taxes required to sustain a basic level of living for much wider population. They already can't tol…

Last time I commented on Zuck on HN I got a warning. That said, this stuff confirms for the 100th time that he is out of touch with reality. Perhaps that’s why he wanted to make VR work so badly. I think he might try to change Co’s name again since Meta doesn’t fit the bill anymore. How about they buy Intel and reverse merge just for the name?

this would be then "Mintel" :-D

Re: Meta's Vision for Superintelligence

#167

Post by fzzzy »

pbrum wrote: post #156

What if superintelligence isn't even a thing? I was watching an interview with a Chinese-American specialist the other day (I'm sure it's been shared here on HN at some point) and she explained in the Chinese AI community they don't operate under the assumption that something such as AGI or superintelligence exists, and therefore don't work toward that goal. I'm sure people in this community can comment to a much mor…

Do we have narrow superintelligence in chess and go and jeopardy?

Re: Meta's Vision for Superintelligence

#168

Post by benterix »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #163
benterix wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My salary is quite good, my friends in the field earn a bit less, but the gap is still there. To put things in perspective, according to this website[0], bus drivers earn ca. €20 per hour, within some quite limited margin. I don't know if this data reflects reality. However, the data for SWE show a much, much wider margin[1]. So it would make much more sense to compare the medians, and this gives only 2x difference.…

You're comparing apples to oranges here. Dataset of levels.fyi heavily skews towards FAANGs and big-tech, not entire SW sector of a nation. Granted, I was also guilty of that since I was comparing the salary of a tram driver for the local state public transport company where they get great benefits and the union always negotiates top salaries since they have a monopoly and can just increase the bus fare to their cust…

I would insist something is wrong here. 3k a month for an SWE seems on the lower end, really. I'm pretty sure you could get 4k just by switching jobs without too much effort and staying at the mid lever. 5k should be possible for senior positions. If you take this into account, it changes the dynamics.

But even if we assumed for a moment that 3k is some kind of upper limit: remuneration reflects demand. If nobody wants to do jobs that are necessary for the society, the related wages go up. From this perspective, things might be working as expected in a society with too many SWEs and too few bus drivers.

Re: Meta's Vision for Superintelligence

#169

Post by FirmwareBurner »

benterix wrote: post #168
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're comparing apples to oranges here. Dataset of levels.fyi heavily skews towards FAANGs and big-tech, not entire SW sector of a nation. Granted, I was also guilty of that since I was comparing the salary of a tram driver for the local state public transport company where they get great benefits and the union always negotiates top salaries since they have a monopoly and can just increase the bus fare to their cust…

I would insist something is wrong here. 3k a month for an SWE seems on the lower end, really. I'm pretty sure you could get 4k just by switching jobs without too much effort and staying at the mid lever. 5k should be possible for senior positions. If you take this into account, it changes the dynamics. But even if we assumed for a moment that 3k is some kind of upper limit: remuneration reflects demand. If nobody wan…

>I would insist something is wrong here. 3k a month for an SWE seems on the lower end, really.

3K NETTO(post-tax) is the norm for mid positions in Austria for SW devs, not on the lower end. Where do you live if this is too low?

> 5k should be possible for senior positions.

5k NETTO is the norm?! In this market? WHERE? Survivorship bias maybe?

>From this perspective, things might be working as expected in a society with too many SWEs and too few bus drivers.

There's no "too few bus drivers", there's the unions of bus drivers (and other jobs) who can push their salary and cost increases into the prices of the general public, as they please (kind of like government workers) since they have a monopoly on public transit and that's what people need to get to work so they don't need to compete on the free market. You're comparing free market labor with a union monopoly.

Maybe a good strategy if you want to have a country where everyone is a government worker and you have no private sector innovation. Would you still be SW devs for the same wages?

Re: Meta's Vision for Superintelligence

#170

Post by FirmwareBurner »

benterix wrote: post #161
Gud wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you earn 6 times more than your friend who is a bus driver, you live in a place that has an unusually high income disparity for Europe.

I have a good job, most of my friends earn, say, 4x bus driver salary.

In another comment you shared a avenge bus driver salary as 44k/year. So by your statement, your friends would earn 4x that, meaning 176k/year while you said you earn 6x that at 264k/year.

Sorry, but something is wrong here. Either you're data/math is wrong, or you and your friends work in the top 1% FAANGs/big-tech jobs, because those tech salaries aren't the norm in Europe.

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