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4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

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Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#161

Post by eagerpace »

justin66 wrote: post #143
eagerpace wrote: post #125

I’m trying to think how I feel about this. I’ve been obsessed with space for a long time, remember traveling to see my first rocket launch of the shuttle in 2006. Follow the commercial development closely since then. Their science missions are inspiring, but not as inspiring as they ought to be. NASA needs an overhaul. This isn’t how I would do it, but that’s not how things work in the real world. SLS is the elephant…

> NASA needs an overhaul. This isn’t how I would do it, but that’s not how things work in the real world. SLS is the elephant in the room and is a complete disaster. It’s a jobs program limping along decades old technology when the commercial options are better. It’s more accurate to say that Congress needs an overhaul. Over the years NASA administrators have pushed back on SLS to the fullest extent you’d expect, but…

That’s a great point. I think it’s just trying to boil the ocean.

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#162

Post by bevr1337 »

jart wrote: post #80
bradley13 wrote: post #59

I'm sure the bureaucracy can stand some serious cutting. However, with voluntary programs like this, you tend to lose the best people.

NASA ended their space shuttle program in 2011 and hasn't been able to send things into space since. For the rest of that decade, the only way Americans could access ISS was by purchasing tickets on Russian spacecraft. NASA pivoted to partnering with private government contractors like ULA, which did 4 launches in 2024, probably spy satellites for the military, but their Atlas V rocket only has 14 launches remaining…

> For the rest of that decade, the only way Americans could access ISS was by purchasing tickets on Russian spacecraft.

Perhaps our coolest diplomacy program. I love that RU and USA have managed to cooperate in space through many decades of conflict.

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#163

Post by jordanb »

eagerpace wrote: post #157
jordanb wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> SLS is the elephant in the room and is a complete disaster SLS isn't great but it does.. you know.. work.

Does it? Do we want to repeat what we did 50 years ago or do we want to do something better and stay this time?

"Meet your mission objectives on the first try" is a pretty reasonable - if low-bar - definition of "works".

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#164

Post by AngryData »

MisterSandman wrote: post #122
maxerickson wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think we should underestimate how poor their grasp of technical reality might be.

And I hate to say it, but in this context, Musk would’ve been at least a little useful in having around. I’m aware he’s not the best person to make reliable predictions, but he does run SpaceX. With both the cuts to NASA and Musk leaving the core inner circle of Trump, space exploration is going to be set back. Mars ain’t happening in our lifetimes, IMO. I hope I’m wrong.

I don't see how Musk could help in any way. He isn't an engineer, and the problems with space exploration are still pure engineering problems. You might as well be asking the CEO of Ford to come to your house and help you replace your cam bearings on a Nissan.

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#165

Post by kevindamm »

dextrous wrote: post #142

Politics aside, according to a pretty comprehensive study (118 missions) it does seem that SpaceX is much more efficient than NASA [1]. Data like this would suggest privatization of space missions is a good idea. Maybe this conclusion is biased somehow, or perhaps the purpose of a dedicated govt org is different in some way that justifies its budget and scope despite the difference in efficiency? https://qz.com/email…

They compare cost, speed-to-market, schedule, and scalability, but it looks like they ignore failed launches and consider all missions successful?

I couldn't find a comparison of the number of launch failures between the two, my recollection is that this happened a lot more often in SpaceX rockets. But maybe that's included in the cost overrun figures and still puts SpaceX ahead by an order of magnitude.

I agree with the thesis of the paper, that platforms and incremental advances are more efficient and more economical. I don't quite agree that an incremental approach would have worked well for the NASA efforts in the 60s and 70s. Perhaps it should be considered as an option for these large organizations, but I'm not convinced it's always better.

Also, to do this study fairly, you would have to set up SpaceX to not benefit from any of the advances made by NASA for the decades beforehand. Some step-function style advances did happen under NASA supervision that benefitted the entire scientific community.

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#166

Post by Strom »

belter wrote: post #147
dextrous wrote: post #142

Politics aside, according to a pretty comprehensive study (118 missions) it does seem that SpaceX is much more efficient than NASA [1]. Data like this would suggest privatization of space missions is a good idea. Maybe this conclusion is biased somehow, or perhaps the purpose of a dedicated govt org is different in some way that justifies its budget and scope despite the difference in efficiency? https://qz.com/email…

> Data like this would suggest privatization of space missions is a good idea How is that working out with the US Health Care System?

Better healthcare for fewer people. Might work well for space exploration.

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#167

Post by jeffbee »

jart wrote: post #80
bradley13 wrote: post #59

I'm sure the bureaucracy can stand some serious cutting. However, with voluntary programs like this, you tend to lose the best people.

NASA ended their space shuttle program in 2011 and hasn't been able to send things into space since. For the rest of that decade, the only way Americans could access ISS was by purchasing tickets on Russian spacecraft. NASA pivoted to partnering with private government contractors like ULA, which did 4 launches in 2024, probably spy satellites for the military, but their Atlas V rocket only has 14 launches remaining…

Man who believes NASA exists to hurl stuff into space. What a sad, narrow existence.

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#168

Post by rfrey »

belter wrote: post #147
dextrous wrote: post #142

Politics aside, according to a pretty comprehensive study (118 missions) it does seem that SpaceX is much more efficient than NASA [1]. Data like this would suggest privatization of space missions is a good idea. Maybe this conclusion is biased somehow, or perhaps the purpose of a dedicated govt org is different in some way that justifies its budget and scope despite the difference in efficiency? https://qz.com/email…

> Data like this would suggest privatization of space missions is a good idea How is that working out with the US Health Care System?

It's working great! For certain companies.

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#169

Post by chadcmulligan »

jordanb wrote: post #144
eagerpace wrote: post #125

I’m trying to think how I feel about this. I’ve been obsessed with space for a long time, remember traveling to see my first rocket launch of the shuttle in 2006. Follow the commercial development closely since then. Their science missions are inspiring, but not as inspiring as they ought to be. NASA needs an overhaul. This isn’t how I would do it, but that’s not how things work in the real world. SLS is the elephant…

> SLS is the elephant in the room and is a complete disaster SLS isn't great but it does.. you know.. work.

I read this recently, and it doesn't sound good

https://idlewords.com/2024/05/the_lunacy_of_artemis.htm

Re: 4k NASA employees opt to leave agency through deferred resignation program

#170

Post by parasense »

eagerpace wrote: post #125

I’m trying to think how I feel about this. I’ve been obsessed with space for a long time, remember traveling to see my first rocket launch of the shuttle in 2006. Follow the commercial development closely since then. Their science missions are inspiring, but not as inspiring as they ought to be. NASA needs an overhaul. This isn’t how I would do it, but that’s not how things work in the real world. SLS is the elephant…

The SLS was a good idea, and it's actually a great rocket. However you are correct in saying it turned into a huge program for the old school rocket industrial complex. I think the private sector currently does this better, or it's certainly debatable. However, I think it's a mistake to say only the private sector can do this kind of thing optimally. There is some multiverse in the timelines where government contractors create an industrial rocket production line that quickly and cheaply stamps out heavy lift rockets. Granted, it's easier said than done, but it still doesn't have to be so expensive. Clearly the expensive part should be the R&D with the industrial production parts being jigged, automated, and fully optimized. The SLS obviously went another route by making the rocket production bespoke with non optimal, manual labor, etc... that kind of protection is acceptable for one-off science mission payloads, but not heavy lift....

Anyhoo, NASA letting so many people resign is good if your opinion is such that lowering government expenditure is a good thing. So long as the exit package is comparable to retirement package these government employees would have got otherwise. My guess is the resignation package has great near term performance but low long term (retirement) performance, making it a great option for younger workers able to pivot to new careers.

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