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The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

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Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#161

Post by hopelite »

raspasov wrote: post #43

"Following his reasoning, it cannot be stated in absolute terms that an iPhone 15 is of “better quality” than a 2003 Nokia." This statement suffers from either viewing the past through rose-tinted glasses or from total cultural relativism in the most pejorative sense. I'm not sure about 2003, but around 2009, I owned a Nokia N900, which was arguably the flagship Nokia phone at the time. I can confidently state that c…

Your are now carrying around a mobile, personal telescreen called a “smart”phone. The telescreen was also the height of technology.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#162

Post by uxp100 »

drdec wrote: post #91
sgt101 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought some wrangler jeans, because I remembered that I had a pair years ago that fit me better than levis, the levis were quite expensive and the wranglers cheap. They were ok for the first wear - but not great to be honest. Then I washed them and they were unwearable. Didn't do anything fancy, just a cool wash, dried them on the line. They turned to cardboard.

That's kind of what happens to denim when you air dry it. They are fine. Wear them a bit and you won't notice. If it bothers you next time tumble dry them on low.

Yeah, I like that about new denim. After 6 months of wear it won’t do that so much and you’ll miss it. Maybe the poster is used to denims that are not 100% cotton.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#163

Post by shelsilverstein »

raspasov wrote: post #43

"Following his reasoning, it cannot be stated in absolute terms that an iPhone 15 is of “better quality” than a 2003 Nokia." This statement suffers from either viewing the past through rose-tinted glasses or from total cultural relativism in the most pejorative sense. I'm not sure about 2003, but around 2009, I owned a Nokia N900, which was arguably the flagship Nokia phone at the time. I can confidently state that c…

This is missing the point of the post.

New iPhones and Android phones eventually have to be replaced because the software is no longer supported. Flip phones continue to be supported, if we would just use them to call people, which would use up less of our lifespan than smartphones, playing games and using social media. Note: I personally wouldn’t suggest flip phones for everyone, because smartphones are expected for some types of MFA now.

The post also says that a lot more clothing is produced and sold that is cheap quality, resulting in more waste. Fast-fashion is also popular, which results in more low-quality material being thrown away than the previous slower release of new styles.

imo the way to help would be to:

- Save enough money to buy higher quality used appliances, clothing, furniture, etc. and stop funding the companies that do this.

- Don’t use social media or websites/apps that promote (through ads or just photos/video) purchase and consumption of low quality goods. Buy used products instead.

I think there’s an opportunity here for everyone to get involved. You can still purchase high quality products, because the point is to increase product quality for future generations.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#164

Post by nativeit »

blueflow wrote: post #89
RangerScience wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s worth noting that the author of Zen and the Art literally went crazy in pursuit of this. I don’t mean this to say “you have asked a bad question”, but rather to say, “you have asked so large a question that a man once went insane in trying to answer it.”

I asked the question because i thought it was good manners to do so. Actually I'm strongly convinced that quality describes how a thing fits the preconceptions about that thing. As testable example, I'm largely unable to tell the quality of beer as i never enjoyed any of it, and thus could not have developed a preconception of how a good beer is supposed to taste.

Trappist quad ales feature a high alcohol content, which makes them sweet but somehow not cloyingly so. Robust Belgian yeasts generate a surprising amount of effervescence, which keeps things light despite the heavy doses of malted barley, and produce esters that generate flavors of banana bread and dark stone fruits that compliment latent notes of burnt sugars and caramel.

That’s a pretty standard description of some of the best ales on the planet (produced by monks in Belgium), if anyone’s curious.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#165

Post by subscribed »

sgt101 wrote: post #52
esperent wrote: post #4

> clothes are unrecognizable after the second wash What clothes are these? I don't buy any kind of expensive brands. I don't take any care when washing. I don't own a lot of clothes so I wear each item weekly. And my clothes last me for several years at least. The dyes have gotten noticeably better than when I was a child - when was the last time you had colors run in the wash?

I bought some wrangler jeans, because I remembered that I had a pair years ago that fit me better than levis, the levis were quite expensive and the wranglers cheap. They were ok for the first wear - but not great to be honest. Then I washed them and they were unwearable. Didn't do anything fancy, just a cool wash, dried them on the line. They turned to cardboard.

Interesting, my experience with Levi's and Wrangler is equally the opposite, and to the larger extent - 501's, 510's would barely survive 6-9 months of wearing, while Wranglers (mostly Arizona And Texas) happily roll into... third year.

Washing in 30 degrees, always tumble drying on low (dryer has a humidity sensor and stops when it's dry, doesn't overdo).

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#166

Post by dijit »

kookamamie wrote: post #156
dijit wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I can tell you how: rigorous testing. I worked for Nokia (briefly, just before Eloppification) and I remember being told that when the iPhone launched everyone laughed because there was no way that the battery could last more than a day, there was no app store back then, no flash, no high-speed data (2G) and it failed every single one of the internal tests that Nokia had. Yet, people didn’t care, obviously - an…

I was there, too. Not at Nokia, but in the ecosystem of these companies. People wanted iPhone over Nokia, not due to its specs but due to its usability and presentation. Let's be honest, both Symbian and Maemo/Meego were abject messes in both of these categories.

They were really trying with MeeGo, we used to joke that we had the most expensive clock app in the world because it had been remade so many times. People forget that R&D can be super expensive. Apple definitely cooked there.

Symbian though, I mean, considering the hardware constraints was crazy!

The smartphone variant of Symbian needed 2MiB of Memory and supported Qt... madness.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#167

Post by panick21_ »

frereubu wrote: post #9
phtrivier wrote: post #2

Begs an interesting question : some people can still afford quality items that last (namely, the people that sell throwaway shit to everyone else ; or, more precisely, the people who earn rents from companies that sell throwaway shit etc...) Are things getting shittier for them, too ? Are luxury brands immune to "energy is getting expensive, and corporate needs to buy shares back and increase dividend, so we have to…

This is a great thread about wealth and craftsmanship. Wealthy people used to appreciate craft, which has morphed into spending lots of money on a brand rather than an understanding of what it is that they're buying: https://bsky.app/profile/dieworkwear.bsky.social/post/3lswmj...

Go and learn about the 1700 century and how people spent all their money on spices because it was trendy with other nobles. Why did they build certain buildings? Because nobles in other places built those buildings.

The idea that people in the past where more sophisticated, and more intelligent is simply not true.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#168

Post by deadbabe »

weinzierl wrote: post #160

People fall largely in two categories: Those who condemn the past and those who glorify it. Of course the reality is between. Whenever something experiences mass adoption, of course quality will decline, e. g. airplane seats with mass adoption of flying. But so, so many things improved dramatically in quality. I could give you endless examples but just think about cars. Despite anecdata to the contrary the reliabilit…

Most 2020s cars are completely unaffordable or overpriced and over engineered but maybe by 2040s this will be largely solved.

The 2010s was peak car.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#169

Post by JKCalhoun »

simianparrot wrote: post #149

Airplane tickets used to cost a lot more for economy class, even adjusted for inflation and fees. To get the equivalent service and quality today you simply have to pay more, you just have the choice of paying very little for very low quality because there’s more flights and more planes. https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/even-with-fees-the-miracle-of... Same can be said for most electronics and even clothes. I’m not say…

I don't disagree with your point, but I suppose my wish then is that there were not low-quality (low-cost) everything in the world right now.

I'm not unsympathetic regarding the poor, I grew up poor myself. And my single working mother raising two kids got by on hand-me-down furniture from her mother (probably, as you and the article suggest, of decent quality though).

Having the option for (new) inexpensive everything allows us to accept low-quality; even encourages it (as has been pointed out, there's a Dopamine hit from purchasing a new thing … I don't know if the same rush comes from purchasing a used piece of furniture from a Goodwill — I suspect though it does somewhat). And, as we know, the landfills, oceans, become the destination for all this consumption.

I admit that I am surprised that I am finding myself wishing that we, the Western world, were poorer again. It seems though that manufacturing has caught up to (down to?) the ability to provide new crap for us even if we were poorer.

One wonders what the Great Depression would resemble in the 21st Century. Would we still have the latest, but crappy, gadgets and such? I sure can't imagine new car sales would not be seriously impacted.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#170

Post by hnhg »

deadbabe wrote: post #168
weinzierl wrote: post #160

People fall largely in two categories: Those who condemn the past and those who glorify it. Of course the reality is between. Whenever something experiences mass adoption, of course quality will decline, e. g. airplane seats with mass adoption of flying. But so, so many things improved dramatically in quality. I could give you endless examples but just think about cars. Despite anecdata to the contrary the reliabilit…

Most 2020s cars are completely unaffordable or overpriced and over engineered but maybe by 2040s this will be largely solved. The 2010s was peak car.

Don't forget the planned obsolescence in 2020s cars.
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