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Tell HN: Notion Desktop is monitoring your audio and network

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Re: Tell HN: Notion Desktop is monitoring your audio and network

#161

Post by 93po »

fusslo wrote: post #160
93po wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In two party consent states, don't need explicit consent from the other party, you just have to tell them you're recording or using a live transcription service that captures but doesn't store audio. But explicit consent is better (which can just be them acknowledging what you said with "ok") if you ever need to defend yourself. With Notion it's still you doing the recording, you're the one using software and clickin…

is that right? good to know. I always thought that you had to seek consent before the recording starts, and I thought Notion started when the meeting started when the feature was enabled ty

you're correct that technically before any audio is recorded, you need to inform and/or get explicit consent. even a single word recorded prior to that isn't two party consent.

i assume with notion you'd need to click the "yes transcribe this" both after the meeting starts and after you inform other party if it's a two party state.

Re: Tell HN: Notion Desktop is monitoring your audio and network

#163

Post by jeanlucas »

benaubin wrote: post #148
mbreese wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get better PMs. Seriously. Users shouldn’t have to opt-out of something for privacy. Respecting privacy should be the default. If a user finds value in letting you listen to the microphone, then great! But you have to inform them! There are also other ways to get the same information — such as if the user also shares their calendar. This is sneaky and evasive behavior. But none of this conversation makes me want to u…

have any in mind? we're hiring :) http://job-boards.greenhouse.io/notion/jobs/6345904003

not sure if I wanna send someone your way if the current PMs are dropping the ball so hard. There's no guarantee if this behavior will be only encouraged for new hires.

Re: Tell HN: Notion Desktop is monitoring your audio and network

#165

Post by dml2135 »

wustep wrote: post #132
dml2135 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why didn't Notion ask for my affirmative consent before monitoring my network traffic? Are there other cases where Notion is monitoring my network traffic? If so, what are they?

There's no network traffic monitoring, not sure what the support agent is talking about -- I think they misunderstood something. See here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Notion/comments/1i4ypl8/comment/m8o... for info about the "local network access" permission

So just to confirm, you are saying that "network port analysis" is NOT used to determine if someone has entered a zoom meeting?

Re: Tell HN: Notion Desktop is monitoring your audio and network

#166

Post by benaubin »

jeanlucas wrote: post #163
benaubin wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

have any in mind? we're hiring :) http://job-boards.greenhouse.io/notion/jobs/6345904003

not sure if I wanna send someone your way if the current PMs are dropping the ball so hard. There's no guarantee if this behavior will be only encouraged for new hires.

in seriousness: we don't listen to your microphone unless you click the button that says "start transcribing" in big letters.

we dropped the ball with the support response quoted the top of the thread. we don't process your microphone data until you click the button to start transcribing, and remind the user to confirm they have two-party consent. we merely detect when a meeting app is using your microphone.

source: i work at notion, just checked the code. it's electron, you're welcome to check for yourself.

Re: Tell HN: Notion Desktop is monitoring your audio and network

#167

Post by benaubin »

DrillShopper wrote: post #96
wustep wrote: post #41

Hey! 1. Notion records audio only during your use of the Meeting Notes feature. Here are the docs: https://www.notion.com/help/ai-meeting-notes 2. Notion desktop app has notifications about meetings that ask you if you want to use Meeting Notes, it recognizes this by detecting that your microphone is on (i.e. it does not listen to audio coming from your microphone). This feature is a setting in preferences btw, under…

Can you give me a source beyond "just trust me, bro"?

our app is electron and you can open the chromium dev tools via the help menu. if you want to verify yourself.

Re: Tell HN: Notion Desktop is monitoring your audio and network

#168

Post by wustep »

dml2135 wrote: post #165
wustep wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no network traffic monitoring, not sure what the support agent is talking about -- I think they misunderstood something. See here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Notion/comments/1i4ypl8/comment/m8o... for info about the "local network access" permission

So just to confirm, you are saying that "network port analysis" is NOT used to determine if someone has entered a zoom meeting?

the logic is “mic is on” + “process using mic is called [zoom/google/etc]” and done locally

Re: Tell HN: Notion Desktop is monitoring your audio and network

#169

Post by theshrike79 »

wferrell wrote: post #93
jitl wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To elaborate: The Notion desktop app will observe if there is a process running on your computer that is actively using your microphone, such as Zoom. Notion does not and cannot listen to the audio coming from your microphone ambiently or snoop on the signal received by another application. This detection is done purely based on the existing of a process using your microphone, not on the audio coming from the microph…

It is not genuine to say that Notion cannot listen in. Notion can listen in. Anytime it wants. Yes on Macs an indicator will be displayed - but not always prominently depending on what other apps/devices are being used (for example using continuity camera) Source: I built the same listening infrastructure into other meeting note taking apps. Our team spoke at length about this security issue with Apple.

Please tell me which meeting note apps use underhanded methods to secretly record my conversations, just so that I can blacklist them company wide.

Re: Tell HN: Notion Desktop is monitoring your audio and network

#170

Post by Torwald »

ipsum2 wrote: post #25
Torwald wrote: post #8

Thank you for telling HN, much appreciated! I am concerned re privacy, so, thanks again. There is a rule in journalism to not burn one's sources, did you violate that rule in the OP? (I don't know, I am not a journalist.) We could invite Notion management to comment on this thread.

He's not a journalist, why would he need to follow the rules of journalism?

He doesn't need to in a strict sense, but these rules represent best practices and emerged for good reasons.
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