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Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

open-web-advocacy.org

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Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#161

Post by layer8 »

technimad wrote: post #148
pxeger1 wrote: post #113

Relatedly, all Google apps (e.g. Maps) on iOS try very hard to push Chrome on you (even though iOS Chrome still has to use WebKit). When you click an external link, they present you the options of Chrome, Google (the search app), or Safari. This happens even if you don't have Chrome/Google installed, so they take you to the App Store instead of opening the webpage. If you choose Safari, it still doesn't open Safari,…

As a user I don’t get why Apple allows this user hostile behavior in an app they distribute in their app store.The platform has alternatives. iOS has a sharing sheet. iOS has a default browser setting (in EU).

Google Chrome and Search offer in-app purchases from which Apple receives a share.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#162

Post by nikanj »

semiquaver wrote: post #153

> Safari is the highest margin product Apple has ever made, accounts for 14-16% of Apple’s annual operating profit Does anyone know what this means? Safari is built in to the OS, how exactly would you measure its margin? Are they just talking about the Google search deal?

Safari has a minuscule team and brings in the Google money

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#163

Post by msgodel »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #61
boroboro4 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do similarly with dates and calendar app. Disgraceful.

Apple knows that what they're doing is against the law, but every day, every month, every year they can get away with it, till the hammer of the law inevitably strikes, is more money in their pocket. So delaying it by every means necessary is what's in their best interest, it's what their lawyers are paid to do because each such decision of conforming to the law boils down to an accounting decision for them: "are the…

It's why I think they're such a great short.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#164

Post by gjsman-1000 »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #159
op00to wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy cow, they’re serious: Penalties: • Up to €15 million or 2.5 % of global turnover for essential requirement failures. • €10 million or 2 % turnover for other obligations. • €5 million or 1 % turnover for misleading or incomplete documents On the one hand, these are important standards. On the other, it seems impossible for small shops to adhere to a lot of this.

Hear me out, I have a tinfoil hat theory. What if, those requirements weren't put to help small shops making a new browser, but to guarantee the big shops who already have a browser are getting fined? * hits bong *

And this is why the EU's GDP versus the US is now only 65% and shrinking. The regulations are about beating US companies into compliance, sometimes with righteous motives; but there's no forethought on how a domestic EU startup might be able to comply, or how a startup would convince investors to take the gamble.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#165

Post by benoau »

semiquaver wrote: post #153

> Safari is the highest margin product Apple has ever made, accounts for 14-16% of Apple’s annual operating profit Does anyone know what this means? Safari is built in to the OS, how exactly would you measure its margin? Are they just talking about the Google search deal?

They're referring to the "Google Search Deal", where Google shares 36% of ad revenue with Apple in exchange for being default search provider across their devices, an amount approximately $20b/year for basically just not changing the default. Which was revealed in Google's antitrust trial, where the deal has been deemed illegal.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#166

Post by p0w3n3d »

First of all.

  We must not agree that all the market will be taken by one engine (i.e. Chromium)
Sadly there's no incentive for this, of course we have Firefox (still, right?) but it may perish because of underfunding for example. We used to have opera, IE, those engines are lost.

So what I think about the EU directive is that it basically allows one company (Google) take over the whole market. Because what we have to choose between is MS Edge (Chromium), Chrome (Chromium), Vivaldi (Chromium) and other Chromium based forks. And I forgot about Firefox which is the margin atm.

I didn't want to say that Apple should allow other engines. What I wanted to say is that I'm scared that once iOS allows installation of chrome, there will become only one engine in the world and THIS will be THE MONOPOLY we don't want to have.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#167

Post by layer8 »

sumeno wrote: post #133
pxeger1 wrote: post #113

Relatedly, all Google apps (e.g. Maps) on iOS try very hard to push Chrome on you (even though iOS Chrome still has to use WebKit). When you click an external link, they present you the options of Chrome, Google (the search app), or Safari. This happens even if you don't have Chrome/Google installed, so they take you to the App Store instead of opening the webpage. If you choose Safari, it still doesn't open Safari,…

I have never experienced this on iOS. I just tested it in Google maps and despite having Chrome installed it opened in Safari (my default) with no prompting or extra steps, it just immediately opened Safari

Google Maps on iOS has a toggle “Ask me every time” that you can turn off, which maybe you did at some point.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#168

Post by aikinai »

fkyoureadthedoc wrote: post #152
pxeger1 wrote: post #113

Relatedly, all Google apps (e.g. Maps) on iOS try very hard to push Chrome on you (even though iOS Chrome still has to use WebKit). When you click an external link, they present you the options of Chrome, Google (the search app), or Safari. This happens even if you don't have Chrome/Google installed, so they take you to the App Store instead of opening the webpage. If you choose Safari, it still doesn't open Safari,…

Also extremely annoying that they implement their own share menu that you have to do an extra tap on to get to the native share menu. Amazon does this as well. I assume it's so they can track what option you choose.

I despise that phantom Share menu!

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#169

Post by simondotau »

wodenokoto wrote: post #135
pxeger1 wrote: post #113

Relatedly, all Google apps (e.g. Maps) on iOS try very hard to push Chrome on you (even though iOS Chrome still has to use WebKit). When you click an external link, they present you the options of Chrome, Google (the search app), or Safari. This happens even if you don't have Chrome/Google installed, so they take you to the App Store instead of opening the webpage. If you choose Safari, it still doesn't open Safari,…

The most infuriating of those are when you do a web search from safari and google give you an overlay on the result asking if you want to “continue” and if you do want to “continue” it tries to install the google app and breaks any way of getting back to your search. Because continue doesn’t mean “continue what you are doing” I can’t believe that their search deal with apple allows that.

I get that all the time. It's such an overtly dark pattern. Sad and disgusting.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#170

Post by superkuh »

rafaelmn wrote: post #66
selckin wrote: post #6

This Apple policy is the only thing stopping chrome from having a full monopoly, and we should be careful trying to remove it

Google has an incentive to make everything work through the web. Safari has the incentive to gatekeep the app store revenue, which is why PWAs are a joke on iOS. Google also has bad incentives (Android, ads) but Safari is the IE6 of modern web.

Work? No. Google has an incredible incentive to make everything javascript so they can make money through spying. The web is HTML.
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