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EverQuest

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Re: EverQuest

#161

Post by gnramires »

theshackleford wrote: post #97
gnramires wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reflecting a bit, I really see not plausible justification why say one account should be let to be logged in for more than 3 hours/day (say specially during workweek). Even if you really have no job, at that point I don't think it's adding to your wellbeing. I myself really enjoyed a game (Tibia, very popular here in Brazil) during my childhood, and, living in a large metropolis (and at the time quite violent too) an…

> Reflecting a bit, I really see not plausible justification why say one account should be let to be logged in for more than 3 hours/day Because I am the master of my time. If I wish to not play for three months, and then I decide I want to spend an entire Saturday playing, that is my choice, not yours. > I don't think it's adding to your wellbeing. I'm not interested in what you think is/is not good for my well bein…

I don't know, I can't really justify spending say 8 hours sitting -- and much less more time. We need to go for a walk, drink water, stop staring at a screen to stay reasonably healthy. Maybe there could be an hour bank or something and you can do a 8 hour stint once in a while if you really wanted. When you're young that doesn't feel so painful, but as you get older you start noticing the health implications of this kind of habit, it's very destructive. For example it can affect your spine, insulin resistance (cause pre-diabetes/diabetes), and more. At least if I were designing an MMO, my conscience would demand I think seriously about this.

But really this (although I think it can be helpful and important) does not get to the heart of the matter which is good, non-dark-pattern-filled game design. Again I don't think this is just a matter or regulation, but requires both a game dev and gamer culture that favors the healthier and more full of wonder, communication and learning (opposed to just gambling addiction) kind of games.

Re: EverQuest

#162

Post by musicale »

rhines wrote: post #57
MBlinow wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've made an effort in recent years to actively avoid researching wikis and guides on games as I play them. I've come to think that a lot of the joy in gaming is the discovery and unraveling the systems that make the game tick. Finding the optimal ways to level or complete some mission through exploration and experimentation is always so much more fulfilling than finding the first result the comes up in google where…

100% agreed with games being designed for online aids. Some of the quests in Oldschool Runescape make me wonder if I'd ever have completed them without guides - it's like they're designed to be a challenge for the whole community upon release, rather than for individual players.

> it's like they're designed to be a challenge for the whole community upon release, rather than for individual players

This is the metagame: game designers vs. every single player in the game. I kind of like it, though once the players win (by figuring out a strategy that works) the solution (often not exactly what the developers had intended) tends to be enshrined in youtube videos, wiki pages, and common practice.

Re: EverQuest

#163

Post by pathartl »

don_neufeld wrote: post #72

I was there. My first pay stub had Verant on it, I joined shortly before the SOE transition. One thing maybe not well known outside of the company was that the MMO subscription revenue enabled a hotbed of experimentation. There was an MMO RTS which never shipped, and several other takes on “can we make genre X an MMO?” that I can’t remember. And then SWG, obviously. EQ2 had all kinds of interesting people on it as a…

I was too young to get in on the early (and tbh me exciting) age of MMOs, only opting for RuneScape because it had a free tier.

I just finished Jason Schreier's book that covered 38 Studio's implosion and then his next book that covered Blizzard. It was a nice trip down memory lane where I remember crawling through the latest PC Gamer issue to read about MMO experiences or watching G4's Portal act out skits in these massive games.

While there's private servers out there, I'm not sure you could recreate the hype around that era.

Re: EverQuest

#164

Post by theshackleford »

gnramires wrote: post #161
theshackleford wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Reflecting a bit, I really see not plausible justification why say one account should be let to be logged in for more than 3 hours/day Because I am the master of my time. If I wish to not play for three months, and then I decide I want to spend an entire Saturday playing, that is my choice, not yours. > I don't think it's adding to your wellbeing. I'm not interested in what you think is/is not good for my well bein…

I don't know, I can't really justify spending say 8 hours sitting -- and much less more time. We need to go for a walk, drink water, stop staring at a screen to stay reasonably healthy. Maybe there could be an hour bank or something and you can do a 8 hour stint once in a while if you really wanted. When you're young that doesn't feel so painful, but as you get older you start noticing the health implications of this…

> I don't know, I can't really justify spending say 8 hours sitting -- and much less more time.

You mentioned "sitting," but I never brought that up. Maybe for you, gaming equals sitting. I use a sit/stand desk. Even when I didn’t, I had a job where I was on my feet 8+ hours a day and so if I wanted to spend a weekend sitting for 8 hours, again, that’s my choice and I’d certainly not have been interested in passing that decision through some government department of "appropriate sitting time."

> Maybe there could be an hour bank or something and you can do a 8 hour stint once in a while if you really wanted.

Or hear me out, maybe it should just stay the way it is: a personal decision that is nobody elses business.

> When you're young that doesn't feel so painful, but as you get older you start noticing the health implications of this kind of habit...

I’m not looking for a lecture on the dangers of sitting. Occasionally spending a day deep in a game isn’t the same as living a sedentary lifestyle for decades. It’s a false equivalency. And any attempt to hard regulate leisure time would restrict both behaviors the rare indulgence and the chronic one. Neither of which are your business or the government’s.

> Again I don't think this is just a matter of regulation, but requires both a game dev and gamer culture that favors the healthier and more full of wonder, communication and learning (opposed to just gambling addiction) kind of games.

There is no monolithic “gamer culture.” People play for different reasons, with different tastes, in different ways. The kind of games you're advocating for already exist, no one is stopping you from playing them. That’s the beauty of a free market: choice. However you are free to choose only for yourself, not for the rest of us.

Re: EverQuest

#165

Post by don_neufeld »

pathartl wrote: post #163
don_neufeld wrote: post #72

I was there. My first pay stub had Verant on it, I joined shortly before the SOE transition. One thing maybe not well known outside of the company was that the MMO subscription revenue enabled a hotbed of experimentation. There was an MMO RTS which never shipped, and several other takes on “can we make genre X an MMO?” that I can’t remember. And then SWG, obviously. EQ2 had all kinds of interesting people on it as a…

I was too young to get in on the early (and tbh me exciting) age of MMOs, only opting for RuneScape because it had a free tier. I just finished Jason Schreier's book that covered 38 Studio's implosion and then his next book that covered Blizzard. It was a nice trip down memory lane where I remember crawling through the latest PC Gamer issue to read about MMO experiences or watching G4's Portal act out skits in these…

Oh boy, 38 Studios.

I should read that book, but I was pretty close to it.

Kurt was a huge EQ fan, and ended up trying to staff his company by making offers to a bunch of people at SOE (which included both me and my team).

I was not convinced. He spent time around the office and when I met him in person he always came across as a BS artist. I don’t think he got anyone from any engineering team, he certainly didn’t get any from mine (I was TD on EQ2 at the time)

The best talent he did get was Jason Roberts, who was my design partner on EQ2 at the time.

I remember some of us being very confused that Smed let him do that kind of recruiting. I think he an actually held some interviews literally in the SOE office. It really felt like Kurt was taking advantage of him.

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