Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It therefore follows that robots should be able to learn with just RGB images too! I don't see how that follows. Humans have trained by experimenting with actually manipulating things, not just by vision. It's not clear at all that someone who had gained intuition about the world exclusively by looking at it would have any success with mechanical arms.
You'd use a two-step approach. 1. First create a model that can evaluate how well a task is going; the YT approach can be used here. 2. Then build a real-world robot, and train it by letting it do tasks, and use the first model to supervise it; here the robot can learn to rely on extra senses such as touch/pressure.
We accidentally solved robotics by watching 1M hours of YouTube
161–170 of 183 posts
Re: We accidentally solved robotics by watching 1M hours of YouTube
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
Aaron Swartz died of suicide, not copyright. His death was a tragedy but it wasn't done to him.
Crimes generally don't kill the criminal. It's the reaction by authorities that kills (perceived) criminals.
Re: We accidentally solved robotics by watching 1M hours of YouTube
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you vastly underestimate how difficult the task you are proposing would be without depth or pressure indication, even for a super intelligence like humans. Simple concept, pick up a glass and pour its content into a vertical hole the approximate size of your mouth. Think of all the failure modes that can be triggered in the trivial example you do multiple times a day, to do the same from a single camera feed…
The point is how much non-vision sensors vs pure vision, helps humans to be humans. Don't you think this point was proven by LLMs already that generalizability doesn't come from multi-modality but by scaling a single modality itself? And jepa is for sure designed to do a better job at that than an LLM. So no doubt about raw scaling + RL boost will kick-in highly predictable & specific robotic movements.
> LLMs already that generalizability
This is not a proven statement. In fact, it's pretty clear that they don't. They have some generalization but that's not enough for what you're inferring. The best way to show this is to carefully talk to an LLM about anything you have a lot of domain expertise in. Be careful to not give it answers (information leakage can sneak in subtly) and specifically look for those small subtle details (that's why it needs to be a topic you have expertise in). "The smell" will be right but the information won't.Also, LLMs these days aren't trained on just language
Re: We accidentally solved robotics by watching 1M hours of YouTube
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
Video games have shown that we can control pretty darn well characters in virtual worlds where we have not experienced their physics. We just look at a 2D monitor and using a joystick/keyboard we manage to figure it out.
Yeah but we already have a conception of what physics should be prior to that that helps us enormously. It's not like game designers are coming up with stuff that intentionally breaks our naïve physics.
Re: We accidentally solved robotics by watching 1M hours of YouTube
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
You'd use a two-step approach. 1. First create a model that can evaluate how well a task is going; the YT approach can be used here. 2. Then build a real-world robot, and train it by letting it do tasks, and use the first model to supervise it; here the robot can learn to rely on extra senses such as touch/pressure.
You're agreeing with the parent btw. You've introduced a lot more than just vision. You introduced interventional experimentation. That's a lot more than just observation
What you say ("interventional") sounds like it's human-supervised.
But maybe I'm interpreting it in the wrong way, so please correct me if so.
Re: We accidentally solved robotics by watching 1M hours of YouTube
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
Per HiQ vs. LinkedIn, it doesn't matter what their ToS says if the scraper didn't have to agree to the ToS to scrape the data. YouTube will serve videos to someone who isn't logged in. So if you've never agreed to YouTube's ToS, you can scrape the videos. If YT forced everyone to log in before they could watch a video, then anyone who wants to scrape videos would have had to agree to the ToS at some point.
It won't serve me videos if I'm not logged in. It tells me to sign in to prove I'm not a bot. How do these people get around this?
Re: We accidentally solved robotics by watching 1M hours of YouTube
#167I didn't understand a single word about this post and what was supposed to be solved and had to stop reading. Was this actually written by a human being? If so, the author(s) suffer from severe language communication problems. Doesn't seem to be grounded at least with reality and my personal experience with robotics. But here's my real world take: Robotics is going to be partially solved when ROS/ROS2 becomes effecti…
It is readily understandable if you are fluent in the jargon surrounding state of the art LLMs and deep learning. It’s completely inscrutable if you aren’t. The article is also very high level and disconnected from specifics. You can skip to FAIR’s paper and code (linked at the article’s end) for specifics: https://github.com/facebookresearch/vjepa2 If I had to guess, it seems likely that there will be a serious cult…
> if you are fluent in the jargon surrounding state of the art LLMs and deep learning
It is definitely not following that jargon. Maybe it follows the tech influencer blog post jargon but I can definitively say it doesn't follow jargon used in research. Which, they are summarizing a research paper. Consequently they misinterpret things and use weird phrases like "actionable physics," which is self referential. "A" physics model is necessarily actionable. It is required to be a counterfactual model. While I can understand the rephrasing to clarify to a more general audience that's a completely different thing than "being fluent in SOTA work." It's literally the opposite...Also, it definitely doesn't help that they remove all capitalization except in nouns.
Re: We accidentally solved robotics by watching 1M hours of YouTube
#168I didn't understand a single word about this post and what was supposed to be solved and had to stop reading. Was this actually written by a human being? If so, the author(s) suffer from severe language communication problems. Doesn't seem to be grounded at least with reality and my personal experience with robotics. But here's my real world take: Robotics is going to be partially solved when ROS/ROS2 becomes effecti…
> Doesn't seem to be grounded at least with reality and my personal experience with robotics.
It also doesn't match my personal experience with physics nor ML, and I have degrees in both.You cannot develop accurate world models through observation alone, full stop.
You cannot verify accurate world models through benchmarks alone, full stop.
These have been pain points in physics for centuries and have been the major pain point even before the quantum revolution. I mean if it were possible, we'd have solved physics long ago. You can find plenty of people going back thousands of years boldly claiming "there is nothing new to be learned in physics," yet it was never true and still isn't true even if we exclude quantum and relativity.
Side note: really the paper is "fine" but I wish we didn't put so much hype in academic writing. Papers should be aimed at other academics and not be advertisements (use the paper to write advertisements like IFLS or Quanta Magazine, but don't degrade the already difficult researcher-to-researcher communication). So I'm saying the experiments are fine and the work represents progress but it is over sold and the conclusions do not necessarily follow
Btw, the paper makes these mistakes too. It makes a very bold assumption that counterfactual models (aka a "world model") are learned. This cannot be demonstrated through benchmarking, it must be proven through interpretability.
Unfortunately, the tail is long and heavy... you don't need black swan events to disrupt these models and boy does this annoying fact make it easy to "hack" these types of models. And frankly, I don't think we want robots operating in the wild (public spaces, as opposed to controlled spaces like a manufacturing floor) if I can make it think an iPhone is an Apple with just a stickynote. Sure, you can solve that precise example but it's not hard to come up with others. It's a cat and mouse game, but remember, Jerry always wins.
Re: We accidentally solved robotics by watching 1M hours of YouTube
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
Video games have shown that we can control pretty darn well characters in virtual worlds where we have not experienced their physics. We just look at a 2D monitor and using a joystick/keyboard we manage to figure it out.
a game has very limited physics. like the buttons you press are pre-tuned to perform certain actions and you arent dealing with continuous nearly infinite possibilities with large ranges of motion, pressure, speed etc. like think about how difficult the game QWOP is because you mostly just have visual feedback
And when I took real classes in a real Cessna, this experience was transferable (aka the flying model I had in my brain was very similar to the one I experienced with my full body in the cockpit).
Re: We accidentally solved robotics by watching 1M hours of YouTube
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're agreeing with the parent btw. You've introduced a lot more than just vision. You introduced interventional experimentation. That's a lot more than just observation
What I describe is an unsupervised system. What you say ("interventional") sounds like it's human-supervised. But maybe I'm interpreting it in the wrong way, so please correct me if so.
This looks like a good brief overview (I only skimmed it but wanted to give you more than "lol, google it") http://smithamilli.com/blog/causal-ladder/