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Germany and Italy pressed to bring $245B of gold home from US

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Re: Germany and Italy pressed to bring $245B of gold home from US

#161

Post by resource_waste »

mklarmann wrote: post #36

IMO the US should have never been trusted, but maybe the argument that this a Trump issue creates critical mass to move this forward. There is enough incentive for the US to not be transparent about the actual gold that is left.

>IMO the US should have never been trusted

I propose, they had never been trusted. Nations do not believe in trust. At the International Relations level, IR Realism is basically the only generally accepted policy. You may have a few Constructivists, but the smartest ones still put trust and norms below power calculations.

Its really that the average person has essentially no understanding of IR and history.

I assure you that verification methods have been happening. The amount of trust was less than the amount of verification.

Re: Germany and Italy pressed to bring $245B of gold home from US

#162

Post by AnimalMuppet »

FpUser wrote: post #92
SuperShibe wrote: post #87

The Germans in this article all appear to be aligned to either BSW (populist far-left, pro-Russia, anti-US) or AfD (populist far-right, pro-Russia). BSW wasn't even elected into the parliament and AfD, while being part of the parliament, has virtually no power due to not being part of the government coalition and all other parties sharing an informal agreement to not pass legislations with the help of AfD. What I'm t…

So repatriating your own property is now pro-Russian propaganda? Unless country is defenseless what is wrong with keeping one's things at one's place

From World War II, the problem with keeping it at your own place was that, if someone overruns your country, your government-in-exile may be able to keep control of gold that is outside your country. Gold that is inside your country, however, is controlled by the invader. (And may be looted by them. Even if you later get your country back, the gold may be gone.)

That exposes you to the risk of the country holding it. But for much of recent history, the US was seen as a lesser risk than a Russian invasion. Whether that is still the way the risks balance... I think we each may hold our own opinion on that.

Re: Germany and Italy pressed to bring $245B of gold home from US

#163

Post by regularization »

Nifty3929 wrote: post #135

I think people greatly overestimate the importance of gold. Gold cannot feed your people, or win a war or cure a disease. And in a crisis likely won't be useful for buying things that do. Gold is maybe just a bit better than fiat currency. Even in terms of inflation, what would happen to the market value of gold (not in Dollar terms, but in terms of what it can buy) if the government decided to spend down $200B in go…

> And in a crisis likely won't be useful for buying things that do.

In a crisis, the value of gold holds more than that of the Papiermark, or even the US dollar - I can buy only one egg for the two I could have bought five years ago. Gold is uniform, portable, divisible and durable - useful attributes in a crisis, and worth more than Confederate dollars.

Gold is useful - for filling teeth, for electronic coating. It's value has stayed normal for thousands of years - although in times of inflation or crisis it might become a little overvalued temporarily as people flee to its safety. One could switch to other precious metals like silver, but this happens to them too.

Re: Germany and Italy pressed to bring $245B of gold home from US

#164

Post by [deleted] »

quchen wrote: post #52
pixelpoet wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was famously answered by Archimedes in his Eureka moment: https://www.longlongtimeago.com/once-upon-a-time/great-disco...

No, that measures volume, not gold content. Anything at least as dense as gold, maybe with with gaps in it to match the density, and a layer of gold around it is indistinguishable from pure gold this way. A more reliable and still relatively cheap test is via conductivity.

[deleted]

Re: Germany and Italy pressed to bring $245B of gold home from US

#165

Post by razemio »

Aldipower wrote: post #146
SuperShibe wrote: post #87

The Germans in this article all appear to be aligned to either BSW (populist far-left, pro-Russia, anti-US) or AfD (populist far-right, pro-Russia). BSW wasn't even elected into the parliament and AfD, while being part of the parliament, has virtually no power due to not being part of the government coalition and all other parties sharing an informal agreement to not pass legislations with the help of AfD. What I'm t…

As it is correct, that they are virtually not in power, framing them as pro-russia is some sort of false flag. Just because they are not anti-russia, like every other party, does not automatically mean that they are pro-russia. AfD and BSW together got more then 25% of all votes. So, you are correct, they virtually are not in power, but they have some real power just by being there. This HN post here is the best exam…

I think anti-nato, anti eu, pro russian gas and anti urkraine war aid qualify as pro russian. I get your point, but I think you are wrong? Just read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AfD_pro-Russia_movement

AfD has SO many connections to the Kremel. At least a big part of AfD is obiously influenced by russian agenda. BSW is a different topic. They might just align with many points russia likes, but you can not be sure either.

BSW or AfD with power in the Bundestag would be russias wet dream in regards to german politics.

Re: Germany and Italy pressed to bring $245B of gold home from US

#166

Post by ceejayoz »

seydor wrote: post #149
OtherShrezzing wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A huge pile of gold in a secure location allows a government to operate in exile essentially forever without creating substantial debts for the home nation. It's not just "Italy's gold", it's "Contemporary Italy's gold". Norway & the Netherlands moved their gold right before the Nazi invasions in the 40's, and were able to continue operating in exile as a result. Taiwan was established on the back of this tactic too,…

they could just buy bitcoin.

You are unlikely to open the NY Fed's vault one day to find it suddenly empty.

There's a benefit to having your country's wealth being physically difficult to move.

Re: Germany and Italy pressed to bring $245B of gold home from US

#167

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

seydor wrote: post #149
OtherShrezzing wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A huge pile of gold in a secure location allows a government to operate in exile essentially forever without creating substantial debts for the home nation. It's not just "Italy's gold", it's "Contemporary Italy's gold". Norway & the Netherlands moved their gold right before the Nazi invasions in the 40's, and were able to continue operating in exile as a result. Taiwan was established on the back of this tactic too,…

they could just buy bitcoin.

Regardless of the other economic aspects, bitcoin is objectively less dependable than gold. One is a network of complex machines, which all require constant power, and the other is rocks in a room.

Re: Germany and Italy pressed to bring $245B of gold home from US

#168

Post by FpUser »

vincnetas wrote: post #105
FpUser wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So repatriating your own property is now pro-Russian propaganda? Unless country is defenseless what is wrong with keeping one's things at one's place

Usually russian propoganda is anything that stirs internal conflict. This does not mean that any internal conflict is russia propoganda, but they are very quick to try amplify any conflicts. This is KGB strategy of active measures (subversion). Read more here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Bezmenov

So the logical conclusion would be that if anyone tries to criticize their government the higher up will just declare it pro-Russian and make person shut-up? How fucking convenient. Maybe it is better to stop looking for Putin under one's bed and take responsibility for own fuckups.

Re: Germany and Italy pressed to bring $245B of gold home from US

#169

Post by Nifty3929 »

OtherShrezzing wrote: post #60
amarcheschi wrote: post #7

I have no idea of the strategy behind it, but for some reasons italy has a lot of gold despite not buying it since a few decades https://www.bancaditalia.it/compiti/riserve-portafoglio-risc...

A huge pile of gold in a secure location allows a government to operate in exile essentially forever without creating substantial debts for the home nation. It's not just "Italy's gold", it's "Contemporary Italy's gold". Norway & the Netherlands moved their gold right before the Nazi invasions in the 40's, and were able to continue operating in exile as a result. Taiwan was established on the back of this tactic too,…

How? You cannot eat gold - and if you're in exile will anybody sell stuff to you?

Re: Germany and Italy pressed to bring $245B of gold home from US

#170

Post by FpUser »

dubbel wrote: post #106
FpUser wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So repatriating your own property is now pro-Russian propaganda? Unless country is defenseless what is wrong with keeping one's things at one's place

We are talking about national gold reserves, not some household items. They exist for the reason to liquidate them in case of national emergencies/severe economic crises. It's easier to liquidate these reserves when they are stored in trading hubs. That could be New York and London, or maybe even Shanghai, if China wasn't a systemic rival. Storing all of them at "one's place" is a larger risk than splitting it up and…

>"It's easier to liquidate these reserves when they are stored in trading hubs"

Does that happen often (gold sale)?

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