Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

After Pornhub left France, this VPN saw a 1,000% surge in signups in 30 minutes

mashable.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 228 posts

Re: After Pornhub left France, this VPN saw a 1,000% surge in signups in 30 minutes

#161

Post by sltkr »

LPisGood wrote: post #108
sltkr wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, intentionally leaking this type of data is extremely illegal under Europe's strict privacy laws. So we are limited to unintentional breaches of privacy which can be guarded against with auditing requirements. Second, you have to look at the potential damage such a leak would have on the affected porn watchers. Is it really that damaging to your reputation if someone could prove that you visited Pornhub in the…

> First, intentionally leaking this type of data is extremely illegal under Europe's strict privacy laws. So we are limited to unintentional breaches of privacy which can be guarded against with auditing requirements You already know this, I’m certain, but laws and “audits” do little more than nothing to meaningfully protect data.

Where's your evidence for that claim?

Personally I worked for a FAANG company that took data protection quite seriously. I would love to say that it was because they cared so much about their customer's privacy (which was of course the official position) but I think the reality was at least partially that the people in charge knew that if data was leaked and it could be pinned on lax internal policies, the company would be liable for millions if not billions in damages.

From that I conclude that the legal framework does provide a certain degree of protection to customer data. Nothing is perfect, of course, but that's true for every law: a red traffic light doesn't force drivers to stop, and in fact people run red lights every day. But the threat of getting fined for running a red light is pretty effective at forcing most people to stop for a red light most of the time, which is not nothing.

Also consider the logical conclusion of your cynical argument. If the laws and regulations that require companies to guard their customers privacy are almost entirely ineffective, as you claim, then shouldn't we abolish them? After all, they impose a burden on companies, which makes goods and services more expensive for consumers, without providing any non-material benefits in return.

Re: After Pornhub left France, this VPN saw a 1,000% surge in signups in 30 minutes

#162

Post by pests »

sltkr wrote: post #79
baby_souffle wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But this... what's the problem with this method? You're just hoping that there's never a leak of any UUID(s) that could be used to correlate things. The ad-tech industry has pioneered de-anonymization tech and they're very, very good at it. Tangential question: if the principal is divorced from the "is not a minor" signal, what prevents a thrifty youth from just buying/stealing somebody's token?

First, intentionally leaking this type of data is extremely illegal under Europe's strict privacy laws. So we are limited to unintentional breaches of privacy which can be guarded against with auditing requirements. Second, you have to look at the potential damage such a leak would have on the affected porn watchers. Is it really that damaging to your reputation if someone could prove that you visited Pornhub in the…

> visitors in France don't bother with any of that, proving that they aren't actually concerned about being blackmailed or outed as porn consumers by their ISP.

I don’t think that follows. Tons of people don’t have the technical means or ability to use those countermeasures. Some don’t even know they are being tracked.

I don’t think that implies they’re fine with being blackmailed.

Re: After Pornhub left France, this VPN saw a 1,000% surge in signups in 30 minutes

#163

Post by tzs »

healsdata wrote: post #134
closewith wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, should bars and off licenses be able to sell alcohol to 10 year olds? Cigarettes? Should that be the responsibility of parents to control, too? Or do we continue with the long held legislative reality that you are responsible for the goods and services that you unlawfully provide to children?

Your analogy is faulty and doesn't hold up to the basic scrutiny. Whoever is giving the child access is responsible, not the manufacturer. If a parent gives their child a device capable of accessing the internet with no restrictions, that's on the parent. Pornhub is manufacturing a product and making it available to the open market, just like Jack Daniels. Jack Daniels has no responsibility to ensure a bar is only pr…

> Whoever is giving the child access is responsible, not the manufacturer. If a parent gives their child a device capable of accessing the internet with no restrictions, that's on the parent.

Suppose a parent lets their 16 year old borrow the family car, the kid drives to a bar, and the bar serves the kid alcoholic drinks.

By your logic would that be considered the parents fault for providing the kid with a means of transport that doesn't restrict where the kid can go rather than the bar's fault for not checking that their customer could legally use their product?

> Pornhub is manufacturing a product and making it available to the open market, just like Jack Daniels. Jack Daniels has no responsibility to ensure a bar is only providing access to legal patrons.

> To make your analogy work for Pornhub, you'd also have to argue "why shouldn't Jack Daniels have to put age-verifying instant blood tests on their bottles in case a parent puts one in their unlocked liquor cabinet?"

That's a poor comparison, because with Pornhub the end user of their product gets it directly from Pornhub. With Jack Daniels most users get the product through resellers. It is the resellers that handle checking that the final sale to the end user is legal.

Users can buy directly from Jack Daniels (jackdaniels.com) and for those sales Jack Daniels does check the buyer's age.

Re: After Pornhub left France, this VPN saw a 1,000% surge in signups in 30 minutes

#164

Post by AngryData »

blacksmith_tb wrote: post #70
mdp2021 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's shocking to read opinions that kids would not «have that level of self-control». Children can display self-control... And of course they can. (Just a tiny example: in many countries, we have them study since the age of five, sometimes earlier. They already have a sufficiently working anterior cingulate gyrus at and before that age; they have understanding of tradeoffs at and before that age.) -- Ooooh, hitters t…

Does that explain why most societies don't permit children to drive cars? Perhaps that's not based on development, but just being too short? I kid, but clearly we don't let children drive, vote, drink alcohol, have sex etc. because of general observations about their limits, including self-control.

Technically in the US farmer's kids can drive at 12 without a license if they are on "farm business" including hauling massive loads, both with tractors and regular cars and trucks. If they wanted they could put an unsecured goat in the back seat of an unlicensed car and drive to town with it.

Re: After Pornhub left France, this VPN saw a 1,000% surge in signups in 30 minutes

#166

Post by cocoto »

jacob019 wrote: post #48
outside1234 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait what? You can't do a Paternity test in France?

Wild. What is the rationale?

Protecting the kids I think, because if the dad is not known then the mother will have to pay for the child alone (subsidized by the government). In France around 3% of kids are raised from dads not knowing that they are not the biological father. Personally I think this law is completely unfair but in practice I think the judges will not believe the one opposing the test.

Re: After Pornhub left France, this VPN saw a 1,000% surge in signups in 30 minutes

#167

Post by AngryData »

sandspar wrote: post #83

I support banning porn. You've got coordinated "teams" of men, most of them diagnosable sociopaths, who work as a group to manipulate and destroy teenagers. For every one woman you see on a porn website, there's a network of 10 men who are working as a coordinated team to manipulate her. Most of the young women are from broken homes, many of them are low IQ, and many of them were sexually abused as children by male a…

Im sorry but you sound completely delusional to me. Whats next, rock and roll turns kids satanic?

Re: After Pornhub left France, this VPN saw a 1,000% surge in signups in 30 minutes

#168

Post by LPisGood »

sltkr wrote: post #161
LPisGood wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First, intentionally leaking this type of data is extremely illegal under Europe's strict privacy laws. So we are limited to unintentional breaches of privacy which can be guarded against with auditing requirements You already know this, I’m certain, but laws and “audits” do little more than nothing to meaningfully protect data.

Where's your evidence for that claim? Personally I worked for a FAANG company that took data protection quite seriously. I would love to say that it was because they cared so much about their customer's privacy (which was of course the official position) but I think the reality was at least partially that the people in charge knew that if data was leaked and it could be pinned on lax internal policies, the company wo…

> Personally I worked for a FAANG company that took data protection quite seriously

Me too, and it’s still funny how often user data gets leaked even with world class engineers and incentives. Moving beyond FANG, look at how absurdly common it is for user data to get leaked - financial institutions, romance services, transportation services, everyone.

Re: After Pornhub left France, this VPN saw a 1,000% surge in signups in 30 minutes

#169

Post by closewith »

healsdata wrote: post #134
closewith wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, should bars and off licenses be able to sell alcohol to 10 year olds? Cigarettes? Should that be the responsibility of parents to control, too? Or do we continue with the long held legislative reality that you are responsible for the goods and services that you unlawfully provide to children?

Your analogy is faulty and doesn't hold up to the basic scrutiny. Whoever is giving the child access is responsible, not the manufacturer. If a parent gives their child a device capable of accessing the internet with no restrictions, that's on the parent. Pornhub is manufacturing a product and making it available to the open market, just like Jack Daniels. Jack Daniels has no responsibility to ensure a bar is only pr…

> Pornhub is manufacturing a product and making it available to the open market, just like Jack Daniels.

Pornhub is obviously the retailer in this analogy. False equivalence fallacy.

> Jack Daniels has no responsibility to ensure a bar is only providing access to legal patrons.

In France and almost all Western countries, Brown Forman has exactly that responsibility when they are retailing to or serving the public, as the pornography vendors are now.

> Because then the same concerns arise -- why should Jack Daniels be given access to my blood just to manufacture an age-restricted product? What will they do with it? Will they secure the data appropriately? How do I know it won't be used to negatively impact my future because my health insurance company doesn't like that I drank a bottle of JD?

Ignoring your straw man, this is exactly how alcohol is treated. A third party - the state - verifies your age and issues a physical token that you must present to prove your age when purchasing alcohol. That is exactly how pornography will now will regulated in France.

Re: After Pornhub left France, this VPN saw a 1,000% surge in signups in 30 minutes

#170

Post by sltkr »

baby_souffle wrote: post #123
sltkr wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, intentionally leaking this type of data is extremely illegal under Europe's strict privacy laws. So we are limited to unintentional breaches of privacy which can be guarded against with auditing requirements. Second, you have to look at the potential damage such a leak would have on the affected porn watchers. Is it really that damaging to your reputation if someone could prove that you visited Pornhub in the…

> First, intentionally leaking this type of data is extremely illegal under Europe's strict privacy laws. Good thing we only ever have intentional leaks, then. > Is it really that damaging to your reputation if someone could prove that you visited Pornhub in the last year? LGBT individuals have killed themselves over being outed before they were ready to. I'd wager that any leak that could positively link a person to…

> Good thing we only ever have intentional leaks, then.

I already addressed this: unintentional leaks from regulated companies are very rare. It's not a perfect system, but it works to some extent.

> LGBT individuals have killed themselves over being outed before they were ready to.

OK, but visiting Pornhub doesn't prove you're gay, it only proves you watch porn, which lots of people do. If someone calls you out on it, you just say you were watching some dumb big-titted bimbo slut get pounded hard in the pussy. Crisis averted.

The age verifier wouldn't know which adult-only site you are trying to access, so when they sign your over-18 token, they don't know if you're going to redeem it on hairybears.com or bigtittedsluts.com.

Again, this is different from your ISP who already knows which sites you visit today and everyone is totally fine with this! ~nobody in France is committing suicide over their ISPs outing them as gay! It's literally a nonexistent problem.

Finally, I don't want to keep doing the checks notes bit, but do you really think there is that much of a taboo on being gay in France of all countries?

> I'd wager that any leak that could positively link a person to a site will also include at least some activity on that site.

But that's not true, as I already explained. The age verifier doesn't know what you are going to use the age-token for. They know strictly less than your ISP, by a huge margin. Note that the ISP doesn't even see the age-token. That's between the site you visit and the age verifier.

> Assuming use of ISP controlled DNS servers, the ISP only knows the account holder's name. They don't know if it's a neighbor/guest that's cracked/borrowed the WiFi ... etc. VPN or even just not using ISP managed DNS circumvents this collection.

For the purpose of blackmail this doesn't really matter... where there is smoke there is fire.

If you heard was found to have child porn on his phone, and his excuse was that his nephew who borrowed his phone on the weekend must have put it there, would you think that exonerates him? Or would you assume he's lying to cover his ass?

> If you could have said "ISPs are paragons of virtue that are always guaranteed trustworthy" I'm sure you would have. But you didn't so we both agree that anything that follows is predicated on a bad-faith premise.

I don't follow your point here. I'm not saying ISPs are paragons of virtue, I'm simply saying: 99% of people who visit Pornhub don't even try to hide this fact from their ISP (note that the people this post is about were only signing up to a VPN after France blocked their access; they didn't give a fuck about their ISP knowing they watched porn before). That means some of these are true:

  1. They trust their ISP not to tell anyone they visit pornhub.
  2. They don't care if anyone knows they visit pornhub.
  3. They don't realize their ISP can see they visit pornhub.
In which of these scenarios does having the ISP issue an age-token make things worse for the customer? I really cannot think of one, but I'm open to changing my mind.
Post reply on HN