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How Ukraine’s killer drones are beating Russian jamming

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Re: How Ukraine’s killer drones are beating Russian jamming

#161

Post by petra »

sreekanth850 wrote: post #144
cenamus wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kinda targeting system do they use? Probably no significant IR signature and radar one's pretty small aswell?

We have multi-layered low signature and passive drone detection system, including radar, radio frequency (RF)-based systems, electro-optical sensors, IR, and video tracking. We also have Thermal imaging for all weather use. And all are integrated into a single command and control system. These upgraded Old school system proved to be worthy to shot down more than 500 turkish drones sent by Pak.

What was the kill rate of this system ?

Re: How Ukraine’s killer drones are beating Russian jamming

#162

Post by sreekanth850 »

potato3732842 wrote: post #156
sreekanth850 wrote: post #111

India used oldschool L70 Guns, zu 23 and ZSU-23-4 Shilka against pakisthan's drone swarm attacks. They are modernized to track, lock, and fire automatically. But they are cheap.

There hasn't been much coverage because it's not as sexy as drones but the degree to which AA tech that was formerly the domain of well funded armies has proliferated down the economic spectrum in recent years is really hard to overstate.

Exactly, one cannot use patriot or s400 to dhot down drones, they are way expensive compared to a cheaper UAV.

Re: How Ukraine’s killer drones are beating Russian jamming

#163

Post by FirmwareBurner »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #121
jasonjayr wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How close are we to making a system that can have multiple counter measures autonomously deployed? (1) if prop based, launch something to snare the props (2) if reflective, pre-launch something to spray black non-reflective paint at it, and followup with laser (3) if evasive, approach with random manouvers (4) if unknown, launch everything and see what works, and feed it back to the training data ... etc, etc.

Mirrors are not an effective defense against military lasers. The power levels are too high and dielectric mirrors only work over narrow wavelengths. In the specific case of US military tech, some of the platforms use white lasers such that even dielectric mirrors are pointless.

>Mirrors are not an effective defense against military lasers

So the cartoons lied to me?

Re: How Ukraine’s killer drones are beating Russian jamming

#164

Post by basisword »

eviks wrote: post #62
basisword wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I really don’t get all the fretting about drones making kill-no-kill decisions. >> You’re telling me that you’d rather this was done by a stressed, emotional, tired front-line private? I want somebody that can be held accountable when it goes wrong. With automated systems we don't have that.

That's not an issue, you can always hold someone accountable, from those who own to those who program.

We can't even figure this out for self-driving nevermind warfare.

Re: How Ukraine’s killer drones are beating Russian jamming

#165

Post by dmkolobov »

RenThraysk wrote: post #90
4gotunameagain wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory. In practice you would not allow a single camera drone to be the single point of failure of a mission with such lengthy and risky planning, and dire consequences.

Still only need one flying drone to identify all targets. There maybe more camera drones available to pilot, but still only need one flying to spot. A static target only needs to be seen once.

I understand that you’re probably just gonna reply with “still only need one camera”

…but if GPS is jammed, and there’s only one camera per fleet, how exactly are the other drones supposed to navigate towards the spotted targets unless they’re all equipped with cameras?

Re: How Ukraine’s killer drones are beating Russian jamming

#166

Post by transcriptase »

jajko wrote: post #101
jvanderbot wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now imagine that but with a shotgun shooting bird/buck shot at decent ROF. Way better. The problem with any point defense system is radiating any energy makes you a big target. So you would want a passive (EO/IR?) or triggered active/passive system.

Why nobody us building automated shotgun based solutions for anti-air defenses... maybe they need more than 100-150m reliable reach? Having 300 of those covering one airfield may not be ideal, nor cost effective, nor easy to manufacture and deploy and maintain in such numbers... we talk about russia after all, they let most of their strategic bombers arrogantly unprotected on runways with full gas tanks. I don't thin…

They’re parked in the open because of the treaty requiring those type of assets be observable by spy satellites. The USA in turn does the same.

Re: How Ukraine’s killer drones are beating Russian jamming

#167

Post by sreekanth850 »

petra wrote: post #161
sreekanth850 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have multi-layered low signature and passive drone detection system, including radar, radio frequency (RF)-based systems, electro-optical sensors, IR, and video tracking. We also have Thermal imaging for all weather use. And all are integrated into a single command and control system. These upgraded Old school system proved to be worthy to shot down more than 500 turkish drones sent by Pak.

What was the kill rate of this system ?

None of them caused any casualities or any damage to infrastructure. As we have multi layered defense system with L70 and Zu23 for very short range Defense agains drones and UAV, Spyder for Short Range, Akash for Medium range, s400 for Long range and high value target, exact kill rate of Guns are unknown. In press briefing, officials said that these were so effective against drones.

Re: How Ukraine’s killer drones are beating Russian jamming

#168

Post by gpderetta »

XorNot wrote: post #103
jvanderbot wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now imagine that but with a shotgun shooting bird/buck shot at decent ROF. Way better. The problem with any point defense system is radiating any energy makes you a big target. So you would want a passive (EO/IR?) or triggered active/passive system.

We've had acoustic gunshot detection for years at this point though. It's not like a shotgun firing is a quiet event.

Are shotgun pellets supersonic?

Re: How Ukraine’s killer drones are beating Russian jamming

#169

Post by hofrogs »

giantrobot wrote: post #109
twothreeone wrote: post #87

Assuming they were remotely operated - at least partially during the final few minutes of the attack - I wonder if the pilots remained in Ukraine or were hidden somewhere close by. I'm assuming they remained in Ukraine, thousands of kilometers away. If so, how did they pull off the remote connection over enemy territory? The only option somewhere as remote as Irkutsk seems to be Starlink, unless the trucks carried cu…

Over cellular modems in the drones with Russian SIM cards. The operation was prepared for months in advance. Getting a bunch of pre-paid SIM cards from the Russian equivalent to 7-11 (which might just be 7-11) was probably the easiest part of the operation.

Stores won't sell a SIM card without the buyer providing valid state ID, and SIM cards are disabled by carriers if they suspect you are using someone else's card and you can't provide an ID for it. This is one of the recent laws. Getting a phone number/data plan that isn't associated with your real identity (and instead registered to someone else, usually a homeless guy somewhere) isn't impossible, but those wouldn't come from a grocery store.

Re: How Ukraine’s killer drones are beating Russian jamming

#170

Post by acdha »

tgv wrote: post #145
lenerdenator wrote: post #78

Hoping and praying someone in the administration is able to convince Trump to align closer to Ukraine (even if only slightly) because of this. The Ukrainians pulled off an absolute coup on Sunday. A third of a nuclear-armed country's strategic bomber fleet inoperable for the foreseeable future. Someone at NORAD probably said "they should have sent a poet" while looking at the satellite imagery. If middle powers like…

> If middle powers like Ukraine can do that to Russia, they can do that to countries like the US Ukraine borders on Russia, but the US is separated by ocean from serious threats. Attack by UAVs of this sort seems nearly impossible.

Don’t we receive millions of containers of cargo annually, not to mention having fewer internal movement restrictions? It certainly doesn’t seem implausible that someone could ship some drones around - the hardest part is avoiding explosives detector, but that’s a hard problem and the defense has the unenviable task of having to get it right millions of times.
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