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Amazon's Vulcan Robots Now Stow Items Faster Than Humans

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Re: Amazon's Vulcan Robots Now Stow Items Faster Than Humans

#161

Post by hackable_sand »

bluGill wrote: post #109
markisus wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During the transition to industrialization it’s conceivable that many people became worse off because they could not find a place in the new economy. Even if society is eventually better off, the our generation or the next may have to sacrifice our way of life.

We do for sure need to get people to realize their jobs are obsolete and train them on something more useful. Old people (often anyone over 25) are far too resistant to change.

We could start by dismantling the oppressive systems that force labor.

Re: Amazon's Vulcan Robots Now Stow Items Faster Than Humans

#162

Post by seadan83 »

bluGill wrote: post #69
elzbardico wrote: post #52

Why do we think this is a good thing without socialism? I am not a fan of socialism, but with the level of automation we are reaching, do we really want to be ruled by our incel tech-bro overlords, living out of UBI, in a permanently bi-strated society without even the illusion of social mobility and democracy we have nowadays?

Luddites were asking that question long before socialism was a thing. However we now have more people than ever working, and standard of living is higher. I'm not worried.

Not a question of luddites. Example, coal in the US became heavily automated - the workers did not all just find new jobs. Industry shifts don't mean the old workers become the new workers. People do get left behind, and potentially en masse.

Re: Amazon's Vulcan Robots Now Stow Items Faster Than Humans

#163

Post by seadan83 »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #159
tombert wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean there is an argument that the robber-barons during the Gilded Age were a net negative, in that they exerted way too much control and a lot of people needlessly suffered in the process. Generally, though, I'm against the arguments of "automation is bad cuz less jobs". I think that might be true in the very short term, but we're never going to have a case where "all possible work is done", because that's a compl…

> I think that might be true in the very short term... The short term matters . It's zero comfort to a factory worker who has lost his job if there will be another, better job for him in a year or two. He still needs to eat between now and then, and he can't buy food with pie in the sky promises of future employment.

AFAIK it would be more fitting to say it is of little comfort to a factory worker who lost their job, that there are now 1.5 more jobs, better jobs, now available to other people.

The reason for AFAIK, my understanding is it is more common for people to be left behind than to transition entirely to a new industry. (That is my memory of seeing some data around that, not saying I'm correct, but that I find it just as plausible to speculate that industrial transitions don't always transition with the same workers.) Perhaps we should talk farming? That is the biggest example pethaps. Some 80% plus of all populations used to do agriculture. The Grapes of Wraith were all about this very topic.

Re: Amazon's Vulcan Robots Now Stow Items Faster Than Humans

#164

Post by analog31 »

LightBug1 wrote: post #86
omneity wrote: post #2

Warehouses is definitely not where I expected robots with retractable blades to first appear. The demo video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWXco05eK28

It's a safe space in the interim. A place where they can hone their skills and sharpen their blades.

The first robot that learns to make a shiv will rule the warehouse.

Re: Amazon's Vulcan Robots Now Stow Items Faster Than Humans

#165

Post by ajmurmann »

thisisnotauser wrote: post #138

Henry Ford famously wanted his workers to be able to afford his cars. When Bezos replaces everyone with robots, who will be left to buy his junk?

If someone else replaces all workers with robots first instead, what will Bezos do then?

What you are describing is a political problem, not one for entrepreneurs. IMO the solution would be a form of UBI that we can smoothly increase as automation in fact removes jobs or lowers wages. I'd like to see that start ASAP, but OTOH we are still close to record-low unemployment and the last years saw the largest wage increases at the lower end in decades.

Re: Amazon's Vulcan Robots Now Stow Items Faster Than Humans

#167

Post by gruntbuggly »

m3kw9 wrote: post #116

This is good news actually, while you have less jobs, hopefully new ones are created, people in the future don't have the option to work slave like jobs.

I see this thinking thrown around often, but I don't see how net new jobs would be created by efficiencies. Amazon wouldn't adopt robots if it created more employment overhead downstream. Sure, there will be robot maintainers, but not at a replacement level of the roles replaced. Companies adopt technologies because they reduce the net amount of human input (cost) required, right?

Re: Amazon's Vulcan Robots Now Stow Items Faster Than Humans

#168

Post by hattmall »

iamtheworstdev wrote: post #150
kajumix wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once he replaces everyone with robots, and all the factories do the same, people will get stuff at home for watching ads.

but ads exist to convince people to buy things. if people can't afford to buy things, why would you need ads?

Products will become advertisements themselves. It could be cheaper and more effective to send everyone a box of Tesla Tasty-Electrons cereal than TV or Social media and slots.

Casinos provide free drinks, cartels offer free prostitutes, it's not unprecedented.

Re: Amazon's Vulcan Robots Now Stow Items Faster Than Humans

#169

Post by marcellus23 »

gruntbuggly wrote: post #167
m3kw9 wrote: post #116

This is good news actually, while you have less jobs, hopefully new ones are created, people in the future don't have the option to work slave like jobs.

I see this thinking thrown around often, but I don't see how net new jobs would be created by efficiencies. Amazon wouldn't adopt robots if it created more employment overhead downstream. Sure, there will be robot maintainers, but not at a replacement level of the roles replaced. Companies adopt technologies because they reduce the net amount of human input (cost) required, right?

Well, the industrial revolution has been a story of continuous efficiency gains and increasing automation, but somehow there's still enough jobs.

Re: Amazon's Vulcan Robots Now Stow Items Faster Than Humans

#170

Post by heavyset_go »

thisisnotauser wrote: post #138

Henry Ford famously wanted his workers to be able to afford his cars. When Bezos replaces everyone with robots, who will be left to buy his junk?

There will be plenty of money to be made serving the needs and interests of the wealthy, while the rest of us are serviced by an informal economy that doesn't see institutional investment.

Look at street markets in countries with high wealth disparity. The well-off wouldn't shop or eat there, and they certainly wouldn't invest in a street vendor, the vendors are meant to serve the needs of people in poverty.

See Citigroup's plutonomy paper[1] that explores what that would look like and what investment strategies investors should take. The tl;dr is that the formal economy will abandon lower classes in favor of making a ton of money serving plutocrats and their friends and families instead.

[1] https://delong.typepad.com/plutonomy-1.pdf

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