Joyent ending "lifetime" hosting accounts • Hacker News Board

Re: Joyent ending "lifetime" hosting accounts

#161

Post by smacktoward » Thu, Aug 16, 2012, 6:59 PM UTC

pmb wrote: post #94

mipapage wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, we got in on VCII I think and had to think about hosting all the time. Our server never performed well. I think we had one site on Textdrive that was live, and quite quickly moved to another host for obvious reasons. I'm glad it worked fro some people, overall a poor experience for us.

I never asked much of it - all I really cared was that it was hosting that I didn't have to think about. Two WordPress sites, some backups of important files and the occasional scp around a stupid firewall or NAT box. And now they are canceling the lifetime service, or, put their ham-handed way: "your lifetime service will end on October 31, 2012." Seriously. Someone in charge of PR actually wrote down and sent out a…

Maybe they know something you don't know? Like perhaps they're planning on murdering you on October 30th. In that scenario, the sentence would make total sense.

Re: Joyent ending "lifetime" hosting accounts

#162

Post by smsm42 » Thu, Aug 16, 2012, 6:59 PM UTC

cletus wrote: post #109

It never ceases to amaze me how many people "fall" for this "lifetime" pricing model. In fact I said the exact same thing three months ago [1]. The fact that the service provider is not getting any future revenue from you, even if they've fairly discounted your lifetime value, gives them the incentive to get rid of you. Additionally it gives the wrong incentives to users to "abuse" their "unlimited" service. You saw…

The customers should be careful, however this does not absolve people who claim "our lifetime account will be good as long as we exist" (http://web.archive.org/web/20060203030930/http://www.textdri...) from responsibility to uphold their end of the bargain. They got the $500, they have to deliver. If they can't, it's a breach of contract. Of course, as a customer, you should be aware that your supplier could breach the contract and have plan B - but that still means they are in breach, however high incentive they have to do it. I wonder if the lawsuits will follow...

Re: Joyent ending "lifetime" hosting accounts

#163

Post by obiefernandez » Thu, Aug 16, 2012, 6:59 PM UTC

Here's the answer you'll get if you write to their support complaining about the change:

Hi Obie,

As often happens in the software business, vendors “end of life” older platforms and migrate customers to new versions or platforms. The service you purchased a “lifetime subscription” to will no longer be supported or available from Joyent. On the other hand, we appreciate and value your business as an early customer. As such, we have created special offers specifically for you to make this transition as easy as possible. Details and promo codes were provided to you in the email.

I hope you will be able to take us up on the offer and see the benefits of our new platform.

Thanks,

------------------ Peter Yorke Senior Solutions Architect JoyentCloud.com

Re: Joyent ending "lifetime" hosting accounts

#164

Post by drewmclellan » Thu, Aug 16, 2012, 7:06 PM UTC

cletus wrote: post #109

It never ceases to amaze me how many people "fall" for this "lifetime" pricing model. In fact I said the exact same thing three months ago [1]. The fact that the service provider is not getting any future revenue from you, even if they've fairly discounted your lifetime value, gives them the incentive to get rid of you. Additionally it gives the wrong incentives to users to "abuse" their "unlimited" service. You saw…

I was one of the original 200 to back TextDrive in with the VC200 accounts. The risk, of course, was that the venture wouldn't be successful and we'd be laying out $200 for less than $200 worth of hosting. If they were successful, $200 would buy a reasonable shared hosting account for life.

Far from being naive and "falling" for the pricing model, my assessment was that

1) 200 shared hosting accounts (one server?) is a completely plausible lifetime offering for a successful hosting company, 2) $200 is a low risk punt, and 3) these are good guys and I think they can realistically make a go of it

TextDrive was a success, now continues to be a success as Joyent, and 200 shared hosting accounts (the state of play when I signed up) should be trivial for them to provide - even if they outsource that obligation to another provider.

I know I wasn't wrong about them being good guys (they are), but that's why I'm bewildered by today's announcement.

It may not be economically viable for them to provide these services now, but it wasn't economically viable for them to start a hosting company until we backed it. That was the deal. Joyent has an obligation to keep these services online, and if that means they need to take a bit of a hit to do that, then that's what they need to do.

Otherwise, I'm unclear how anyone would trust them again.

Re: Joyent ending "lifetime" hosting accounts

#165

Post by holgate » Thu, Aug 16, 2012, 7:07 PM UTC

obiefernandez wrote: post #163

Here's the answer you'll get if you write to their support complaining about the change: Hi Obie, As often happens in the software business, vendors “end of life” older platforms and migrate customers to new versions or platforms. The service you purchased a “lifetime subscription” to will no longer be supported or available from Joyent. On the other hand, we appreciate and value your business as an early customer. A…

That's the boilerplate that the support desk is sending out to everyone.

I suppose the question to ask is this: "Were you lying back in 2006 when you said the offer was good '[a]s long as we exist', or are you lying now? Or did you decide to renege on your promise somewhere in-between?"

You'll get the same boilerplate response, but it'll be on record.

Re: Joyent ending "lifetime" hosting accounts

#166

Post by howradical » Thu, Aug 16, 2012, 7:09 PM UTC

Yver wrote: post #70

howradical wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am Matt from Slicehost. And yes, if something sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

Unless we're talking about American Airlines' Lifetime Pass.

LOL this was always a secret dream/inspiration of mine and they've shafted those poor folks too.

Re: Joyent ending "lifetime" hosting accounts

#167

Post by thedeuce » Thu, Aug 16, 2012, 7:09 PM UTC

seems like joyent are nothing but snake oil salesmen

Re: Joyent ending "lifetime" hosting accounts

#168

Post by mikeash » Thu, Aug 16, 2012, 7:10 PM UTC

larrys wrote: post #159

mikeash wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why wouldn't somebody sue? It sounds like this service cost a minimum of hundreds of dollars, which is enough to be significant, but still small enough to fit within small claims. If I were one of these customers I'd certainly consider it.

Agree and essentially realized that when responding to _delirium above with regards to small claims court which I hadn't considered on first glance.

Cool! With all the attention that big lawsuits get, it's easy to forget that small claims is there, and sometimes even effective.

Re: Joyent ending "lifetime" hosting accounts

#169

Post by keithpeter » Thu, Aug 16, 2012, 7:13 PM UTC

nemesisj wrote: post #35

"your lifetime service will end on October 31, 2012" If you're writing that sentence and don't see a problem with it, there's no helping you. Look, many of us have been there and sold "free" things to early customers who become a pain later on, but you have to honor it. Better yet, never sell something "lifetime" without at least some kind of low recurring fee to cover nominal costs.

Thank you: just the idea of someone sitting down and typing that phrase in amazes me. Some kind of token refund and a slightly longer switch-over period could have turned this into a PR positive.

Re: Joyent ending "lifetime" hosting accounts

#170

Post by mikeash » Thu, Aug 16, 2012, 7:15 PM UTC

brey wrote: post #150

raganwald wrote: post #132

The fairest way to offer "lifetime" or "unlimited" plans is to include a simple warranty: "If we ever cancel this plan, we will refund your money in full."

yup. I'd be suspicious of any "unlimited" plan which didn't offer such a guarantee - anything that doesn't put its money where its mouth is is just marketing, a polite euphemism for "lies" in this case. or time-bound it, so everyone's clear - if I know I'm buying a 10 year plan, that's fine. I know I'm getting value for money, and the service provider knows they have a finite projected cost.

I'd think that such a warranty would be implied. It's a standard expectation that if you can't deliver what a customer paid for, you refund their money. If it's an ongoing service, then you can prorate the refund... but for a lifetime service, they've always used 0% of it and should thus get a 100% refund.