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NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

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Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#161

Post by snake42 »

ziddoap wrote: post #147
AcerbicZero wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're in a hierarchical structure and someone higher up gives you an ultimatum, your choices are: comply, resist and face consequences, or find subversive, incremental ways to undermine it. None of those are cost-free. "Fighting" isn't about magic moves that keep everything safe. It's about choosing when and how to accept the risks. Expecting a fight with no threat to your position is cowardice disguised as pragm…

> or find subversive, incremental ways to undermine it. I'm asking for concrete examples of what "subversive, incremental ways to undermine it" would be. You basically just reworded the vague suggestion of "fight back". What are some specific examples of what the NSF director could have done that are subversive, incremental ways to undermine the orders which ultimately came from the president?

Mire things down in bureaucracy. Try and make everything take substantially longer than it should. Throw up hurdles in the face of progress. "Forget" to do important steps in the process so that you have to re-do work. Implement things on the face of it that are correct, but that don't achieve the same result, etc.

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#162

Post by mikeyouse »

pyuser583 wrote: post #126
rchaud wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American elites push back when their tax shelters and uninsured deposits (see Silicon Valley Bank collapse) are at risk. That's their line in the sand.

The US government has been systematically destroying all the tax shelters. Switzerland, Cayman Islands, etc now report to the IRS.

We need a TRC from the IRS to accept funds from some customers… we applied for that in January for 2025 - the 6/8 week estimate is now doubled.. the phone number that used to dump you into a queue to be answered in an hour is disconnected now. The IRS is not going to be chasing down non-compliant companies in the near future.

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#163

Post by brianmurphy »

pixelpoet wrote: post #145
nandomrumber wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If this isn't the tyrannical government (disappearing people, destroying public services even the Dept of Education, deliberately dismantling checks and balances, ...) the 2A was specifically created for, then what would be? And if the 2A isn't about countering tyrannical government, what IS it for?

Trump was elected on deporting illegals, closing the Dept of Education, removing men from women's sports and to stop sending money overseas. The insular HN community doesn't understand this is what the majority of American voters want. Many of us are very happy with the direction things have been moving.

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#164

Post by mikeyouse »

9283409232 wrote: post #127
eli_gottlieb wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, it's a good deal worse than that. The NSF actually has a statutory mandate to ask for those Broader Impact sections; Congress would have to pass a law to stop it. So now the people applying for grants need to include, by law, a section that, by policy, will get the grant application returned for editing and "mitigation", while the Administration is also ordering, again without Congressional authority, that one ou…

> while the Administration is also ordering, again without Congressional authority Trump is doing a lot of illegal things. Like, A LOT of illegal things, but if you read the article they specifically said that Trump officials said they were only going to ask for Congress for 55% of the current budget in the next years budget cycle so they are actually doing this one correctly.

Next year’s budget cycle starts in October.. they’re illegally impounding grants today.

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#165

Post by rahimnathwani »

lesuorac wrote: post #124
rahimnathwani wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The options you have: A) disagree and commit B) disagree and wait to be fired C) appear to commit, but secretly subvert your (elected) boss's plans/intentions I use the word 'boss' here because the president has the right to hire and fire for this role: SEC. 5. 42 U.S.C. 1864 (a) The Director of the Foundation (referred to in this Act as the ‘‘Director’’) shall be appointed by the President by and with the advice and…

Is it disagree and commit? NSF is an "independent agency" [1] so if the job you were appointed to an confirmed by congress (senate) is at odds with the presidents desires I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be a problem for the president not you. Similar to all those inspector generals who just gave up when they were illegally fired. Literally your job is to prevent the president from corruption, how are you going to do…

The US has three branches of government.

If you believe the NSF is independent then you are implicitly agreeing with those who claim there is a fourth 'deep state' branch of government that operates without accountability.

Separately: I cited the law that says the president can fire the head of the NSF. So I'm not sure why you'd conclude that any disagreement would be a problem for the president.

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#166

Post by ziddoap »

anthomtb wrote: post #157
ziddoap wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm going to stay and fight and try to make whatever impact I can. Can you give me some examples of how you would fight? Boss comes in (or whoever more powerful than me, e.g. someone acting on the president's orders), says something with the gist of "Do this, or get fired". What are the next steps that I can take that won't get me fired, but also count as fighting back?

If you are a Reddit user r/MaliciousCompliance is full of stories* of people follow orders to the most exacting and absurd extent. Most of them are peon-level folks so I am not sure how those actions would map to a person in a position of real power. *fact vs embellished fact vs straight fiction is always questionable on Reddit.

I do really enjoy that subreddit, but as you alluded to, I can't think of any stories that would be applicable to the NSF director & president (even if taking them all at face value rather than as writing exercises).

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#167

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

sathackr wrote: post #4

One thing I don't understand is people resigning on principles. If something bad is happening to an organization that I hold a significant amount of clout and power in, I'm not just going to leave and hand the reigns to someone on 'their side' -- I'm going to stay and fight and try to make whatever impact I can. So many people are just leaving...instead of fighting. Which seems like it's going to have the effect of j…

It's just not an option in most leadership positions. When news comes down that the NSF budget is likely to be cut 55%, being the director of the NSF means deciding how that 55% cut is allocated. Your subordinates need advice on how to make funding decisions, and guarantees that you'll preserve funding for X and Y and Z which are particularly important. And once you start offering such advice and guarantees, you're an active participant in the cuts, no matter how much you personally wish they hadn't happened.

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#168

Post by ojbyrne »

ziddoap wrote: post #13
sathackr wrote: post #4

One thing I don't understand is people resigning on principles. If something bad is happening to an organization that I hold a significant amount of clout and power in, I'm not just going to leave and hand the reigns to someone on 'their side' -- I'm going to stay and fight and try to make whatever impact I can. So many people are just leaving...instead of fighting. Which seems like it's going to have the effect of j…

> I'm going to stay and fight and try to make whatever impact I can. Can you give me some examples of how you would fight? Boss comes in (or whoever more powerful than me, e.g. someone acting on the president's orders), says something with the gist of "Do this, or get fired". What are the next steps that I can take that won't get me fired, but also count as fighting back?

I think 4 year olds know how to do that. Follow the exact letter of what they say, but doing everything else outside the bounds of "do this" the way you want to.

I.e. "It's time for bed" means "I'm going to continue to play, just in my bed."

"Go to sleep" means "Pretend to sleep for 5 minutes, then go back to playing." When confronted, say that you woke up after 5 minutes.

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#169

Post by sillyfluke »

etskinner wrote: post #82
rahimnathwani wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The options you have: A) disagree and commit B) disagree and wait to be fired C) appear to commit, but secretly subvert your (elected) boss's plans/intentions I use the word 'boss' here because the president has the right to hire and fire for this role: SEC. 5. 42 U.S.C. 1864 (a) The Director of the Foundation (referred to in this Act as the ‘‘Director’’) shall be appointed by the President by and with the advice and…

Secret other option: Disagree and convince your boss to change their mind That, of course, probably doesn't apply in this situation since Trump rarely changes his mind. But it does apply in other situations.

I don't know, I can feel everyone who has tried and failed to prevent calamity from inside an organization cringe recalling that they had nothing to show for it except lost years and burn out.

As for GP's options, normally I would think B (standing your ground and throwing them a small bone while waiting to get fired) is the most rational option outside of sheer self-preservation. Since its a federal job if you don't know the law it may get little dicey if you go the C route.

My guess from out of leftfield: there is immense pressure and unseen threats being thrown about by admin goons similar to what they did in the attorney general's office in the Southern District of New York, namely: If you don't resign we will fire everyone underneath you. That's what would easily explain this behavior.

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#170

Post by yodsanklai »

sathackr wrote: post #4

One thing I don't understand is people resigning on principles. If something bad is happening to an organization that I hold a significant amount of clout and power in, I'm not just going to leave and hand the reigns to someone on 'their side' -- I'm going to stay and fight and try to make whatever impact I can. So many people are just leaving...instead of fighting. Which seems like it's going to have the effect of j…

Most people just don't make waves and cooperate. The ones who resign at least have principles.
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