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Google contract prevented Motorola from setting Perplexity as default assistant

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Re: Google contract prevented Motorola from setting Perplexity as default assistant

#161

Post by keeda »

robertlagrant wrote: post #115
keeda wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure a contract was signed, but as has been pointed out many times about Google's heavy-handed control over Android, it doesn't mean it was fair to all parties: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/googles-iron-grip-on... Given the recent judgements about Google's anticompetitive behavior in multiple other arenas, revisiting these licensing agreements seems justified.

> Sure a contract was signed, but as has been pointed out many times about Google's heavy-handed control over Android, it doesn't mean it was fair to all parties: The article is basically saying "if you don't use Play store and Google apps you'll have to build them yourself". I don't really understand - yes? You would have to. But you still got a load of stuff free. You only have to build apps on top. You get a worki…

> The article is basically saying "if you don't use Play store and Google apps you'll have to build them yourself".

The article says a lot more. A key point about the Open Handset Alliance, OHA (emphasis theirs):

"If a company does ever manage to fork AOSP, clone the Google apps, and create a viable competitor to Google's Android, it's going to have a hard time getting anyone to build a device for it. In an open market, it would be as easy as calling up an Android OEM and convincing them to switch, but Google is out to make life a little more difficult than that. ...

The OHA is a group of companies committed to Android—Google's Android—and members are contractually prohibited from building non-Google approved devices. That's right, joining the OHA requires a company to sign its life away and promise to not build a device that runs a competing Android fork."

Re: Google contract prevented Motorola from setting Perplexity as default assistant

#162

Post by kstrauser »

square_usual wrote: post #58
HenryMulligan wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The factual info in your reference "[0]" makes no sense. The writer (and illustrator) of the Dilbert cartoon is Scott Adams [1]. I have no idea what the name you referenced has anything to do with it, other than some Japanese software. Or was all of part of your comment written by an LLM? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilbert

Saying Hatsune Miku made X is a common joke on Twitter/Tumblr when the original person to do so has reprehensible political beliefs.

Huh, TIL. That would have caught me, too.

Re: Google contract prevented Motorola from setting Perplexity as default assistant

#163

Post by jillyboel »

robertlagrant wrote: post #157
jillyboel wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's stopping you? Reflect on that and you'll have your answer.

What's stopping me is I'm not trying to build a phone. If I were, I wouldn't be blaming Google for not making things easy enough for me.

lol and you've clearly never heard of a thought experiment

Re: Google contract prevented Motorola from setting Perplexity as default assistant

#164

Post by 9cb14c1ec0 »

xnx wrote: post #16

It continues to baffle me that Google gets harassed by the courts for being a better actor in almost every area it participates. Open source Android vs. closed iOS Install apps from any source on Android vs. total restriction on iOS Switch default app for browser (and many other things!) vs. No choice but Safari tech on iOS Easy switch of search provider in Chrome vs. countless dark patterns pushing Edge and Bing on…

Android is source partially open, not anywhere close to true open source.

Re: Google contract prevented Motorola from setting Perplexity as default assistant

#165

Post by ascagnel_ »

int_19h wrote: post #141
fidotron wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The requirement that amazes me they never gone absolutely done for was that to get certified (to carry the Play Store) you must not release any Android devices which are not certified. i.e. a given manufacturer would not be able to sell Google based Android devices and separate non-Google based Android devices. It's as if being able to bundle Windows OEM licenses was reliant on not selling any models with Linux.

Wasn't this something that Microsoft actually tried at one point (and was rightly slammed for)?

It was -- and it's so blatantly anti-competitive and letter-of-the-law (at least in the US) abuse of a monopoly position that Microsoft stopped it almost as soon as they were challenged on it.

Re: Google contract prevented Motorola from setting Perplexity as default assistant

#166

Post by ascagnel_ »

keeda wrote: post #49
xnx wrote: post #16

It continues to baffle me that Google gets harassed by the courts for being a better actor in almost every area it participates. Open source Android vs. closed iOS Install apps from any source on Android vs. total restriction on iOS Switch default app for browser (and many other things!) vs. No choice but Safari tech on iOS Easy switch of search provider in Chrome vs. countless dark patterns pushing Edge and Bing on…

> Open source Android vs. closed iOS https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/googles-iron-grip-on... This article lays out in painstaking detail in one place most of the criticisms about Android you'll find in this comment thread. And this was published in 2018! That Google still maintains "a better actor" aura despite all that we know now is the greatest trick they ever pulled.

It's open-source in the same way TiVo was "open-source" back in the day: yeah, you get the code, but you can't do anything with it in a practical sense.

Also, that article was published in 2013 and only received light updates in 2018 -- and its core arguments haven't really aged even with the additional five years.

Re: Google contract prevented Motorola from setting Perplexity as default assistant

#167

Post by btown »

fidotron wrote: post #128
indrora wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Open source Android vs. closed iOS Google have slid back on this from day one. A pure-AOSP build of Android is borderline unusable, to the point that the dialer UI, various essential apps such as contacts and the like are now proprietary Google code, stripped out of AOSP. Additionally, AOSP has gone to a source-dump release pattern, rather than an open build. Last I knew, even basic things like the Camera and clock…

The requirement that amazes me they never gone absolutely done for was that to get certified (to carry the Play Store) you must not release any Android devices which are not certified. i.e. a given manufacturer would not be able to sell Google based Android devices and separate non-Google based Android devices. It's as if being able to bundle Windows OEM licenses was reliant on not selling any models with Linux.

Perhaps not "absolutely done for," but there was meaningful action here that resulted in a 4.3 billion EUR fine (of which only 200 million was reversed on appeal).

The action was based partially on the Anti-Fragmentation Agreements (AFAs) mentioned above: https://www.clearyantitrustwatch.com/2022/09/the-general-cou...

IMO there should be mechanisms that prevent this kind of thing from ever occurring, but regulating this in a way that doesn't meaningfully impede other (benign) certification programs is a complex design space indeed!

Re: Google contract prevented Motorola from setting Perplexity as default assistant

#168

Post by conradev »

gaiagraphia wrote: post #112
supermatt wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they think they had no choice And they really don't have a choice. if you don't abide by googles terms then they will not permit you to use google mobile services. That means (at the very least): - No "play" services (breaks lots of apps and 3rd party peripherals). - No app store (over 90% of apps are distributed solely through the play store. even major android players like samsung have tiny libraries in their own…

Big shout out to Google Play Integrity/Safety Net (or whatever it's currently called). Was the one thing which ended my couple of years without Google, as my banking apps started banning my phones fingerprint for being insecure. Seems like in a major part of '''Pax Americana''' is needing to use a Google or Apple fingerprint to participate in society. Makes you laugh when people whinge about China.

Attesting that a closed source device meets arbitrary closed source standards is a necessary evil.

One real world problem is that some existing systems are built relying on the integrity of the components within, i.e. BART in the bay area relies on the BART cards being honest and secure. If iPhones are to be allowed into the system, they also have to be honest and secure.

The capability is being over-used and abused, and we should design systems to never need it, but some do.

Re: Google contract prevented Motorola from setting Perplexity as default assistant

#169

Post by j16sdiz »

fidotron wrote: post #128
indrora wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Open source Android vs. closed iOS Google have slid back on this from day one. A pure-AOSP build of Android is borderline unusable, to the point that the dialer UI, various essential apps such as contacts and the like are now proprietary Google code, stripped out of AOSP. Additionally, AOSP has gone to a source-dump release pattern, rather than an open build. Last I knew, even basic things like the Camera and clock…

The requirement that amazes me they never gone absolutely done for was that to get certified (to carry the Play Store) you must not release any Android devices which are not certified. i.e. a given manufacturer would not be able to sell Google based Android devices and separate non-Google based Android devices. It's as if being able to bundle Windows OEM licenses was reliant on not selling any models with Linux.

ugh?

Huawei sell both. Not in the same market, but they sell both.

Re: Google contract prevented Motorola from setting Perplexity as default assistant

#170

Post by ascagnel_ »

kstrauser wrote: post #45
xnx wrote: post #16

It continues to baffle me that Google gets harassed by the courts for being a better actor in almost every area it participates. Open source Android vs. closed iOS Install apps from any source on Android vs. total restriction on iOS Switch default app for browser (and many other things!) vs. No choice but Safari tech on iOS Easy switch of search provider in Chrome vs. countless dark patterns pushing Edge and Bing on…

For the record, none of those are objectively "better". You and I may think they're better. Lots, lots , as in billions of people, couldn't care less: > Open source Android vs. closed iOS Almost no one outside specific tech circles cares, and even if they understood what it meant, still wouldn't care. > Install apps from any source on Android vs. total restriction on iOS That's one of the primary reasons I suggest th…

> I might agree with that, although part of me is glad that there's at least one major platform that Chrome hasn't taken over.

> Five years ago, I'd have agreed. Today Chrome seems like the King of Dark Patterns because it can get away with it. It's the one single app on my Mac that makes me specially configure cmd-Q to quit it. Manifest v3. Web Integrity API. Etc., etc., etc. Google does this because they can. They haven't been the better actor in ages.

One of my biggest fears with the EU coming down on Apple is that they'll force Apple to allow "real" Blink-powered Chrome (vs. the current shell around WebKit), and that we'll wind up with another late-90s/early-00s browser monopoly. Blink is already at something like 90% market share on desktop and 60% on mobile (basically everything not iOS/macOS), and Google is already acting near-unilaterally on new features.

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