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Why Explore Space? A 1970 Letter to a Nun in Africa.

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Re: Why Explore Space? A 1970 Letter to a Nun in Africa.

#161

Post by 7952 »

genwin wrote: post #159
chris_wot wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make up your mind. Is it a problem with their religion, or is it a problem with free food for the starving?

There's no contradiction. Religion/culture is the root cause of the problem. Free food makes the problem worse.

That is fundamentally just misanthropy. Peoples actions are based on free will, and are often logical if you take the time to understand the world from their point of view. A subsistence farmer with no pension scheme has an economic imperative to have lots of children. It is insane to suggest that letting our farmers children die is going to change that. Children are a consequence of sex, not religion or culture. Do you want me to draw you a diagram to explain how it works?

Re: Why Explore Space? A 1970 Letter to a Nun in Africa.

#162

Post by chris_wot »

kingkawn wrote: post #144
chris_wot wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That question presupposes that the only people it is worthwhile to save from starvation is the one who grows up to make a large impact on their country. It's the sort of logic that I find very dangerous.

The question presupposes that you cannot possibly determine this in advance and therefore all are worth saving.

Let us say that you knew with absolute certainty that none of them would grow up to revolutionise their society. Would you still save them, or would you let them die?

Re: Why Explore Space? A 1970 Letter to a Nun in Africa.

#163

Post by chris_wot »

genwin wrote: post #159
chris_wot wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make up your mind. Is it a problem with their religion, or is it a problem with free food for the starving?

There's no contradiction. Religion/culture is the root cause of the problem. Free food makes the problem worse.

So only those with a religion that does not encourage many children (or those with no religion) should be fed? If so, let's take it further - should we actively go around refusing food to those who want large families?

Re: Why Explore Space? A 1970 Letter to a Nun in Africa.

#164

Post by genwin »

chris_wot wrote: post #163
genwin wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no contradiction. Religion/culture is the root cause of the problem. Free food makes the problem worse.

So only those with a religion that does not encourage many children (or those with no religion) should be fed? If so, let's take it further - should we actively go around refusing food to those who want large families?

No one should get free food except temporarily for events that can't be reasonably predicted / planned for. No other conditions need apply. Doing otherwise does more harm than good.

Re: Why Explore Space? A 1970 Letter to a Nun in Africa.

#165

Post by genwin »

7952 wrote: post #161
genwin wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no contradiction. Religion/culture is the root cause of the problem. Free food makes the problem worse.

That is fundamentally just misanthropy. Peoples actions are based on free will, and are often logical if you take the time to understand the world from their point of view. A subsistence farmer with no pension scheme has an economic imperative to have lots of children. It is insane to suggest that letting our farmers children die is going to change that. Children are a consequence of sex, not religion or culture. Do…

If your diagram can explain away the fact that Utah consistently has the US's highest birth rate, then yes. Children largely are a consequence of religion/culture in many parts of the world. The parents use their free will to do what religion/culture has told them is good to do.

The subsistence farmer who has lots of children to help him dooms his kids. What's insane is enabling farmers to do that by saving their kids and nothing else. Since it's economic the farmer may well have even more kids to do even better economically.

Re: Why Explore Space? A 1970 Letter to a Nun in Africa.

#166

Post by genwin »

nivla wrote: post #160
genwin wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no contradiction. Religion/culture is the root cause of the problem. Free food makes the problem worse.

You have pretty much repeated that in every comment of yours in this thread. Hope we all could have a healthy discussion without gross generalizations and prevent Ycombinator HN from turning into another r/atheism.

Healthy discussion can include the word "religion". I haven't made any generalizations that haven't also been suggested by much research by others.

Re: Why Explore Space? A 1970 Letter to a Nun in Africa.

#167

Post by nivla »

genwin wrote: post #166
nivla wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have pretty much repeated that in every comment of yours in this thread. Hope we all could have a healthy discussion without gross generalizations and prevent Ycombinator HN from turning into another r/atheism.

Healthy discussion can include the word "religion". I haven't made any generalizations that haven't also been suggested by much research by others.

Including the word "religion" and asserting a position on it via gross generalization is two things. Going through the thread it is just a shame to find you repeat the same mantra (no pun intended) over and over in the every comment without providing a substantial source or proof to back it up. In other words just like a typical discussion you find over at r/atheism.

Re: Why Explore Space? A 1970 Letter to a Nun in Africa.

#168

Post by kingkawn »

chris_wot wrote: post #162
kingkawn wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question presupposes that you cannot possibly determine this in advance and therefore all are worth saving.

Let us say that you knew with absolute certainty that none of them would grow up to revolutionise their society. Would you still save them, or would you let them die?

It's a pointless question as it is absolutely impossible to predict. So we continue to attempt to save them all. They will make other contributions too, or their children.

Re: Why Explore Space? A 1970 Letter to a Nun in Africa.

#169

Post by jbrechtel »

genwin wrote: post #67
jbrechtel wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This talk by Hans Rosling makes a pretty reasonable case for decoupling the notion of religion and birth rates. http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/hans_rosling_religions_and_...

Does he explain away the correlation in Utah? It seemed a safe bet that Utah has the US's highest birth rate, given Mormonism there. A search confirmed it. (Sorry I'm lazy on video sources.)

No he doesn't mention it from what I recall. The data discussed is broader (and more longitudinal) than that trend.

Personally I'd guess the birth rate there is a direct result of the church's push for more children, but I don't really know.

Re: Why Explore Space? A 1970 Letter to a Nun in Africa.

#170

Post by chris_wot »

kingkawn wrote: post #168
chris_wot wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let us say that you knew with absolute certainty that none of them would grow up to revolutionise their society. Would you still save them, or would you let them die?

It's a pointless question as it is absolutely impossible to predict. So we continue to attempt to save them all. They will make other contributions too, or their children.

So you value people solely by their contributions to society. I do not.
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