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Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

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Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#161

Post by hummingn3rd »

Pooge wrote: post #154

For a company I've interviewed with, I've been asked twice a salary range and declined both times. I was even transparent for the 2nd time (which happened months later) and answered that it's not in my interest to give a number first. Well, I received an offer from them and I would have undercut myself by 30% . This is perhaps—or perhaps not—an extreme example, but I only applied what I was told in the negotiation ar…

I am a bit confused by not talking about the salary right away, I have seen advice like yours and in this article about not giving the number fisrt but the opposite in other articles saying to leverage the anchoring bias by giving a high number first. That would help raising the following offers. Both approaches seem to make sense so I am not sure what to choose.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#162

Post by zerr »

Cerium wrote: post #13
soneca wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which rules would be different in particular, you think?

The information landscape has changed a bit - several large states now require posting clear salary bands, which many companies comply with in good faith. Some like Netflix post something useless (eg: "The range for this role is $100,000 - $720,000").

When given the range, overshoot the max so they can negotiate you down close to the max.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#163

Post by zerr »

andrewstuart wrote: post #27
davely wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> say “I'm looking for $150K to $160K…” I’ll defer to your experience on this but I am under the impression that giving a range was a bad idea because a company can always lowball you: “oh, you said you were okay with 150K, why are you trying to renegotiate with us now?!”

“Just to clarify, I said in an email that I’m looking for $150k to $160k depending on the role. Now that we’ve talked about the job I feel like the $160k is the right amount given my skills and experience.” That’s how to handle it, with the caveat that you should not be using that as a ploy to get the higher rate, never having had the willingness to take the lower rate. If you give a range, you should expect to be of…

But you never find out that the actual range was 180-250k.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#164

Post by ornornor »

hummingn3rd wrote: post #161
Pooge wrote: post #154

For a company I've interviewed with, I've been asked twice a salary range and declined both times. I was even transparent for the 2nd time (which happened months later) and answered that it's not in my interest to give a number first. Well, I received an offer from them and I would have undercut myself by 30% . This is perhaps—or perhaps not—an extreme example, but I only applied what I was told in the negotiation ar…

I am a bit confused by not talking about the salary right away, I have seen advice like yours and in this article about not giving the number fisrt but the opposite in other articles saying to leverage the anchoring bias by giving a high number first. That would help raising the following offers. Both approaches seem to make sense so I am not sure what to choose.

I’m also ambivalent because you risk investing in a time consuming interview process only to find out they’re offering .5 of what you deemed the minimum you’d take.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#165

Post by 1oooqooq »

hummingn3rd wrote: post #161
Pooge wrote: post #154

For a company I've interviewed with, I've been asked twice a salary range and declined both times. I was even transparent for the 2nd time (which happened months later) and answered that it's not in my interest to give a number first. Well, I received an offer from them and I would have undercut myself by 30% . This is perhaps—or perhaps not—an extreme example, but I only applied what I was told in the negotiation ar…

I am a bit confused by not talking about the salary right away, I have seen advice like yours and in this article about not giving the number fisrt but the opposite in other articles saying to leverage the anchoring bias by giving a high number first. That would help raising the following offers. Both approaches seem to make sense so I am not sure what to choose.

are you a vc level with visibility of salaries in all the company orgs? if not, just stay silent or you will undercut yourself. working class never knows their value, by design.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#166

Post by coopykins »

I found this article at a time where I had the opportunity to accept two job offers, so I had nothing to lose by pushing for more salary. The negotiation went well and got a substantial increase in the final offer on company A. On the other hand, company B dropped their offer. So watch out, if company B had been my only option I would have lost my opportunity.

I was clear from the beginning that I had another offer at hand, to use as leverage.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#167

Post by ornornor »

ryandrake wrote: post #67
bongodongobob wrote: post #55

Unless you're in like the top 1% in your field, there is no negotiation. Must be nice I guess.

Yea, I kind of think a lot of these "Just negotiate, bro" posts are from people who are extremely strong candidates already, like they invented the entire field that the company plays in. Or their PhD thesis was on the exact thing the company is trying to do. For the rest of us, companies can take us or leave us--they aren't going to get into some bidding war for some generic, but strong senior skilled candidate.

That’s scarcity mindset and it decimates your potential for negotiation. If you really truly believe you are a commodity and have nothing at all to offer compared to any other candidate, it’s worth either learning something new to get out of that commodity category and/or look at your experience + knowledge outside your core specialty and market that better.

It sounds cliché but there is nobody like you. We all have unique experiences (life + professional), hobbies, knowledge no one else has or at least not in that particular combination. That’s your « unfair advantage » as some call it and you absolutely can use it to your advantage.

The choice is yours.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#168

Post by ghaff »

mystifyingpoi wrote: post #146
palata wrote: post #48

I looked for resources a few years ago and found a post by a software engineer talking about "Fearless Salary Negotiation" [1]. The engineer said: "it's a small book, cost me around 40 bucks which were immediately compensated by the fact that I managed to negotiate a higher salary". I wanted to ask for a raise: I had been working in that startup for 4 years and had never had a raise. I thought "if that book helps me…

Haha, I love it. It's incredible how tables turn once you submit your resignation. I was being outsourced and my boss declined even the smallest raise, saying that his client would have to raise the payment as well, and I cannot skip him as the middleman. So I resigned and found another job. The next day client reached out to me and asked if I want to skip the middleman, because suddenly it's fine and there are no co…

As I suggested elsewhere, that's fine but you have to be OK with them saying "Sorry to see you go. Don't let the door hit you on your way out."

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#169

Post by ZoomZoomZoom »

zerr wrote: post #162
Cerium wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The information landscape has changed a bit - several large states now require posting clear salary bands, which many companies comply with in good faith. Some like Netflix post something useless (eg: "The range for this role is $100,000 - $720,000").

When given the range, overshoot the max so they can negotiate you down close to the max.

"Why do we need a candidate that can't read or do basic math?"

Also, usually the high bound is set to catch desperate overqualifieds into the job competing process, not to be actually paid.

YMMV, speaking from experience in non-US job market culture.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#170

Post by Pooge »

hummingn3rd wrote: post #161
Pooge wrote: post #154

For a company I've interviewed with, I've been asked twice a salary range and declined both times. I was even transparent for the 2nd time (which happened months later) and answered that it's not in my interest to give a number first. Well, I received an offer from them and I would have undercut myself by 30% . This is perhaps—or perhaps not—an extreme example, but I only applied what I was told in the negotiation ar…

I am a bit confused by not talking about the salary right away, I have seen advice like yours and in this article about not giving the number fisrt but the opposite in other articles saying to leverage the anchoring bias by giving a high number first. That would help raising the following offers. Both approaches seem to make sense so I am not sure what to choose.

I think it's fair to give it first if you're a Senior engineer and are able to receive offers quickly.

If you were looking for a $150k salary, you could drop an extreme anchor at $200k and they might even give you $180k.

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