I don't understand the chart, does it say wagtail suddenly had a lot more uv traffic, but pip and poetry did not drop much? what does that mean? new batch of users emerges using uv? behavior of new uv version disrupted the chart?
uv downloads overtake Poetry for Wagtail users
161–170 of 206 posts
Re: uv downloads overtake Poetry for Wagtail users
#162I feel for me, at least one nice thing about poetry over uv is, that if I have an issue or feature extension, I can just write my own plugin in pure Python. With uv, I'd need to learn Rust in addition to python/c/c++/etc. I wonder what it would take to get poetry on par with uv for those who are already switching to it? Poetry is definitely very slow downloading multiple versions of packages to determine dependencies…
I wonder what it would take to get poetry on par with uv for those who are already switching to it?
Poetry and uv have quite different philosophy. Poetry is incredibly opinionated in how you should do things, and trying to make poetry fit an existing project or combining poetry with other tools is quite likely to break. Uv on the hand is far more flexible and easier to make work with your current workflow. For me that was the main reason I gave up poetry, and in that aspect poetry will probably never be 'on par' with uv since these aren't technical differences, but differences of philosophy.
Re: uv downloads overtake Poetry for Wagtail users
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
uv build Building source distribution... running egg_info writing venv.egg-info/PKG-INFO Successfully built dist/venv-0.1.0.tar.gz Successfully built dist/venv-0.1.0-py3-none-any.whl
I guess it depends on what you mean by a build system. From my understanding uv build basically just bundles up all the source code it finds, and packages it into a .whl with the correct metadata. It cannot actually do any build steps like running commands to compile or transform code or data in any way. For that you need something like setuptools or scikit-build or similar. All of which integrate seamlessly with uv.
It actually does exactly what pip does depending on your configured build backend, so if you have your pyproject.toml/setup.py configured to build external modules, `uv build` will run that and build a binary wheel
Re: uv downloads overtake Poetry for Wagtail users
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, switched to writing python professionally ~4 years ago, and been low key hating the ecosystem. From a java and javascript background, it's mostly been npm/mvn install and it "just works". With python, there's always someone being onboarded that can't get it to work. So many small issues. Have to have the correct version per project, then have to get the venv running. And then installing it needs to build stuff…
I cannot share the same experiences. mvn is a buggy mess, randomly forgetting dependencies, and constantly needing a full clean to not die on itself. npm and the entire js ecosystem feels so immature with constant breaking changes, and circular dependency hell, when trying to uppgrade stuff.
I'm not saying mvn or npm is perfect. But the issues they have are consistent. My coworker and I would either have the same issues or not any issues. But with python it's probably more ways of running the project in the team than there are people, all with small tweaks to get it working on their system.
Re: uv downloads overtake Poetry for Wagtail users
#165As an aside, I can't praise the Wagtail CMS highly enough. It sets a high bar for usability and accessibility of the auto-generated content management UI.
The developer experience is top notch with excellent documentation and many common concerns already handled by Wagtail or Django. A significant amount of Wagtail-specific code is declarative, essentially describing data model, relationships, and UI fields. The parts that you don't need stay out of the way. It's also agnostic of the type of front-end you want, with full and automatic support for headless mode with JavaScript client, using traditional Django templates SSR, or using a dynamic approach like HTMX.
Kudos to the Wagtail team!
Re: uv downloads overtake Poetry for Wagtail users
#166I recently switched to uv, and I cannot praise it enough. With uv, the Python ecosystem finally feels mature and polished rather than like a collection of brittle hacks. Kudos to the uv developers for creating such an amazing piece of software!
But how does it work with components that require libraries written in C? And what if there are no binaries yet for my architecture, will it compile them, including all the dependencies written in C?
Yes it'll build any dependency that has no binary wheels (or you explicitly pass --no-binary) as long as said package supports it (i.e. via setup.py/pyproject.toml build-backend). Basically, just like pip would
Re: uv downloads overtake Poetry for Wagtail users
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
I guess it depends on what you mean by a build system. From my understanding uv build basically just bundles up all the source code it finds, and packages it into a .whl with the correct metadata. It cannot actually do any build steps like running commands to compile or transform code or data in any way. For that you need something like setuptools or scikit-build or similar. All of which integrate seamlessly with uv.
It actually does exactly what pip does depending on your configured build backend, so if you have your pyproject.toml/setup.py configured to build external modules, `uv build` will run that and build a binary wheel
Yes, that's my point. You need to bring your own 'real' build system to make uv doing anything non-trivial. And the fact that this work transparently with uv is a very good thing.
Re: uv downloads overtake Poetry for Wagtail users
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure – and I think it’s certainly proving to be a good thing so far! My concerns are more longer-term. I see two primarily: (1) As uv’s governance is driven by a for-profit company, I see incentives that will eventually compromise on its benefits. (2) Python packaging has historically been very fragmented, and more recently there’s been lots of work on standardization. That work will be impacted when users massively…
> That work will be impacted when users massively shift to one package installer. Charlie Marsh (who founded Astral that develops uv) is very engaged in the standardisation process around Python packaging. The whole idea around uv is to be something that follows the standards as much as possible. uv has been much more aggressive about conforming than the other package managers.
yep, I really appreciate their current efforts, but still think it’s a point of concern. Feels risky to have so much of an ecosystem resting on so few people (bus factor, governance, etc). Hopefully with Astral being a for-profit business they’ll find ways for their work to be more sustainable than other package managers’ maintainers.
Re: uv downloads overtake Poetry for Wagtail users
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
Google's not that broken yet: https://pixi.sh/latest/
That (main) page doesn't mention python once, so personally I was immediately wondering if this is an alternative to tools like uv or more generally tools like mise and asdf. It really isn't that clear so could you try to elaborate a bit?
Hah, your comment persuaded me to look at that page, and honestly I also can't tell what it even is. I think it's supposed to be an alternative to `mise` and `asdf`, but it mostly mentions various Python tools? And doesn't seem to have an overview of what's available to install through Pixi?
Then I clicked a link and got to https://prefix.dev/ ...
> pixi is a fast software package manager built on top of the existing conda ecosystem. Spins up development environments quickly on Windows, macOS and Linux.
Oh, build on top of conda. I am so going to stay the hell as far away from that as possible!
Re: uv downloads overtake Poetry for Wagtail users
#170It's interesting to see UV downloads surpassing Poetry for Wagtail users. Could be a sign of growing preference for speed and simplicity.
Poetry also is a true open source project without corporate backing iirc, so they don't have the publicity levers that uv has.
uv is open source
https://docs.astral.sh/uv/reference/policies/license/
There is not true vs untrue open source unless perhaps you intend copyleft, but that has nothing to do with whether or not there is corporate backing. Even GNU itself has had corporate backing for its compiler work and other utilities.