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Fasting & Programming

mahdiyusuf.com

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Re: Fasting & Programming

#161

Post by tripzilch »

alinajaf wrote: post #11

(Disclaimer: I'm a militant atheist now) I think I would find stopping five times a day for prayer to be a bit of a distraction, though I imagine the short bursts of meditation would be good for my concentration overall. I tended to gain weight during Ramadan, but that's probably because my family made a big deal of every iftar, inviting extended family members, eating out and having big greasy Pakistani meals almost…

> I'm a militant atheist

Oh boy those militant agnostics aren't going to know what hit them!

Re: Fasting & Programming

#162

Post by etruong42 »

no_more_death wrote: post #133
HSO wrote: post #88

IANAN (I am not a nutritionist) but I strongly suspect that the physical and mental exhaustion is primarily related to dehydration (as Mahdi Yusuf himself indicates by bolding "drink"). Looking at some of the comments here, the main difference between those who describe positive experiences with fasting and what the author describes is that the former drink water throughout the day. In that light, let me quote from a…

Yes, fasting really isn't bad if you drink plenty of water. I fast and pray semi-regularly (I'm a Christian). It is rough at first but you get into the groove about half-way through the day. Fasting never hurt by ability to code. Fasting sharpens sensitivity; my body kicks into "prayer" mode and I can focus better. On the other hand, it is really hard to fast and stay up late! I usually end up going to bed early.

As a former wrestler, I have had very similar experiences. On days where I could drink water, I assessed no difference in my productivity between days that I fasted and days that I ate, except when my fasting lasted over three days. Even then, my decline in productivity in relation to the duration with my fasting was not very steep.

However, I found that my productivity is very strongly correlated with my hydration, and going an entire day without water showed immediate, significant, and negative effects. I strove to manage my time in such a way to get all my work done without needing to spend those days programming.

Re: Fasting & Programming

#163

Post by Jd »

beagle3 wrote: post #153
Jd wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience is that even with lots of water you get serious muscle fatigue starting on day 4, and major dizzy spells everytime that you sit down/stand up. Also, the body seems to go into something of a hibernation mode and want more sleep. Besides those factors, I'd say I've managed reasonably well, and I think you could continue to work a desk job just fine -- but the inability to move quickly will kill any exerci…

Interesting. I guess it depends on the kind of exercise you do. What I noticed is that around day 7 or so, anaerobic exercise (e.g., thai boxing) becomes very demanding and hard to keep up for more than a few minutes at a time. However, it's just as easy as always to do aerobic exercise like jogging or swimming. Never had dizzy spells or feeling of muscle fatigue (except for anaerobic exercise) - and it was also easi…

I wonder if the insertion of lemon juice is enough to counterbalance the dizzy spells. I recall doing long walks but not any jogging while doing longer fasts.

I'm very surprised by the lack of muscle fatigue though. I've done fasts of 4+ days 10+ times and I always get significant muscle fatigue around that point (esp. in the hamstrings).

Re: Fasting & Programming

#164

Post by beagle3 »

Jd wrote: post #163
beagle3 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I guess it depends on the kind of exercise you do. What I noticed is that around day 7 or so, anaerobic exercise (e.g., thai boxing) becomes very demanding and hard to keep up for more than a few minutes at a time. However, it's just as easy as always to do aerobic exercise like jogging or swimming. Never had dizzy spells or feeling of muscle fatigue (except for anaerobic exercise) - and it was also easi…

I wonder if the insertion of lemon juice is enough to counterbalance the dizzy spells. I recall doing long walks but not any jogging while doing longer fasts. I'm very surprised by the lack of muscle fatigue though. I've done fasts of 4+ days 10+ times and I always get significant muscle fatigue around that point (esp. in the hamstrings).

If the lemon juice does it, it's something other than the sugars - I didn't even use a whole lemon through 21 days.

Re: Fasting & Programming

#165

Post by beagle3 »

anthonyb wrote: post #160
beagle3 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure what you mean by an "instance" I defined it earlier: specific person, at a specific fasting period (by which I meant contiguous period). > also depends on what you're eating during the fast. I don't think we're talking about the same thing. "fast" says "what you're eating" is nothing.

Eating nothing for three weeks?! That's stupid and dangerous. You're putting your life at risk from heart attack and kidney and liver failure (and other people's, judging from your comments in this thread).

> Eating nothing for three weeks?! That's stupid and dangerous.

To quote other people on this thread - "citation needed". I've done this more than once, actually, and I know others who do too.

Yes, I have eaten essentially nothing for three weeks. No, I wasn't putting my life at risk of anything, though you may believe what you want -- did you notice that I'm not the only one who posted about long fasts? You just assumed everyone was eating, but we use "fast" literally, not as a codeword for "calorie restriction".

Although I had the references to support that it's healthy, I did do bloodwork a couple of times through, and at the end, it was -- in fact -- much, much improved. For example, my B12 levels went from -2 sigma to +2 sigma. (If this sounds impossible to you, read the wikipedia entry about B12 - the general "knowledge", even among doctors, about B12 is unbelievably incorrect).

My doctor, who is a reasonably open minded MD, looked at the results and said "just make sure you start eating when you are feeling hungry". That happened 21 days after I started. He wasn't worried after looking at my bloodwork.

If you're healthy at the beginning, irreversible damage starts around day 40 (but is very swift at that point). There are quite a few people in India who do 30 days every year for religious reasons, and suffer no ill effects -- and have been doing this for centuries.

Re: Fasting & Programming

#166

Post by dinkumthinkum »

irahul wrote: post #149
dinkumthinkum wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that simple. There's a few standards such as the beliefs being "sincerely held" and that accommodation should not render an "unreasonable burden" on the employer. You can say these are subjective but welcome the legal system. No judge is going to let a non-Abrahamic sham religion impose strange conundrums for the employer. People have played games with this before. Some prostitutes have tried to make their b…

> You can say these are subjective But they are subjective. > No judge is going to let a non-Abrahamic sham religion impose strange conundrums for the employer. What qualifies a religion as sham? From what I have seen, whatever complies with a religious person's belief is legit, everything else is a sham. People often love to mention scientology is a made up religion . No one ever explained to me scientology is made…

> But they are subjective.

So is the application of most of our laws. I don't know what your point is. "Beyond a reasonable doubt" is the most subjective thing I can imagine but does that really matter?

The answer is, in reality and not in fantasy, NO.

> What qualifies a religion as sham?

If you made a religion that was "It is a commandment that one shall not be taxed more than 10% and that one cannot work more than 4 hours" it will be clearly seen that you do not "sincerely" hold that belief and that you are just trying to game the system and you will have put, under any normal person's view, an unreasonable burden on the employer.

This is a distinct question from objectively makes a religion a sham. We were talking about what you could actually get away with in the real world right? If that's the case then what I said is true and holds.

Now, if you want a defense of religion or why Judaism is any better than Scientology, you certainly won't get one from me. But if you try to play games and expect a judge to agree with you under EEOC laws, I doubt you will get very far. :)

Re: Fasting & Programming

#167

Post by anthonyb »

beagle3 wrote: post #165
anthonyb wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eating nothing for three weeks?! That's stupid and dangerous. You're putting your life at risk from heart attack and kidney and liver failure (and other people's, judging from your comments in this thread).

> Eating nothing for three weeks?! That's stupid and dangerous. To quote other people on this thread - "citation needed". I've done this more than once, actually, and I know others who do too. Yes, I have eaten essentially nothing for three weeks. No, I wasn't putting my life at risk of anything, though you may believe what you want -- did you notice that I'm not the only one who posted about long fasts? You just ass…

Your b12 will be up because your body is cannibalising its tissues to stay alive. That's your liver, kidneys, etc. and it doesn't mean that you're healthier.

Given that you don't know that, and earlier on you didn't know what ketosis is, I'll take your dietary advice with a large grain of salt...

Re: Fasting & Programming

#168

Post by beagle3 »

anthonyb wrote: post #167
beagle3 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Eating nothing for three weeks?! That's stupid and dangerous. To quote other people on this thread - "citation needed". I've done this more than once, actually, and I know others who do too. Yes, I have eaten essentially nothing for three weeks. No, I wasn't putting my life at risk of anything, though you may believe what you want -- did you notice that I'm not the only one who posted about long fasts? You just ass…

Your b12 will be up because your body is cannibalising its tissues to stay alive. That's your liver, kidneys, etc. and it doesn't mean that you're healthier. Given that you don't know that, and earlier on you didn't know what ketosis is, I'll take your dietary advice with a large grain of salt...

Wow. I mean, you have all the answers!

I did know what ketosis is. But ketosis DOES NOT induce acetone breath in 99.9% of the population*time - which is what I understood you asserted. Look it up. Really, look it up.

And you better read about b12. You are radically misinformed. Not that I care - it's your health that will suffer. Really. Look it up.

Re: Fasting & Programming

#169

Post by Jd »

beagle3 wrote: post #164
Jd wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the insertion of lemon juice is enough to counterbalance the dizzy spells. I recall doing long walks but not any jogging while doing longer fasts. I'm very surprised by the lack of muscle fatigue though. I've done fasts of 4+ days 10+ times and I always get significant muscle fatigue around that point (esp. in the hamstrings).

If the lemon juice does it, it's something other than the sugars - I didn't even use a whole lemon through 21 days.

Very curious now what causes the dizzy spells. Please send me a github message or something if you ever find info. This is a long term interest of mine.

Re: Fasting & Programming

#170

Post by Jd »

beagle3 wrote: post #103
neutronicus wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience with this sort of thing is that despite thrice-weekly lifting sessions, I lose a LOT of muscle. Just a heads-up for anyone thinking of trying this.

> despite thrice-weekly lifting sessions, I lose a LOT of muscle My experience is like the GPs (I only lose muscle if I don't exercise while fasting). Do you have "nontrivial" muscles? My experience is that I don't lose muscles I use (If I don't jog, I _do_ lose leg muscles; if I'm not boxing or swimming, I _do_ lose arm muscles; but if I do both, and balanced exercises like crunches, squats, etc - I don't seem to lo…

This is also fascinating. I always assumed I was losing muscles, and perhaps I adjusted my exercise/fasting program to accomodate for this -- but I could have been deluded as I never focused on this point carefully.
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