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The subtle art of designing physical controls for cars

theturnsignalblog.com

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Re: The subtle art of designing physical controls for cars

#161

Post by PetitPrince »

Hackbraten wrote: post #154
d--b wrote: post #124

I take the opportunity to rant about cruise control / speed limit buttons, which have a much worse UX than climate control. If someone in the auto industry reads this: Can I get a button that says 50, one that says 80 and one that says 130. Right now, you have to hit “set” and then adjust the speed limit with some up and down arrows, which is really annoying and takes your eyes off the road. 99% of the time I need 50…

> so if you prefer, you do 1/2/3 where you can set the 3 speeds in the parameters. Please don’t do this. Presets can be super difficult to understand. Configuring them can feel overwhelming, and you can’t verify your presets easily while the vehicle is stopped. > Or at the very least, make the arrows adjust the speed in 5kph increments. Does pressing and holding the arrow not do that for you? I remember (before I wen…

> Does pressing and holding the arrow not do that for you? I remember (before I went carless) that my Audi used to do 10kph increments, displaying the target speed in the HUD, when I pressed and held the lever.

IIRC Gen 2 Priuses only incremented the speed by 1.604km/h (yes, that 1mi/h, go figure why they didn't adjust for the rest of the world).

But you're right that most of the time it's adjustable by holding the arrows (I've tried Peugeot, Opel, Hyundai).

Re: The subtle art of designing physical controls for cars

#162

Post by d1sxeyes »

One of my favourite dash controls ever was the Saab “Night” mode. Very simple, one press and all of the backlight illumination was turned off except for the absolutely critical controls (speed, etc.).

Super useful for reducing distractions while driving at night. Most of the night driving I do today is polluted by light splashing off a central LED on the main console, or dynamic instrumentation on the dash itself. Match that with the blinding headlights manufacturers are wont to put in nowadays and it makes for a much more fatiguing night time driving experience.

I do wonder if it increased the risk of falling asleep at the wheel, but I have no doubt that it improved night vision overall.

Re: The subtle art of designing physical controls for cars

#163

Post by PetitPrince »

d--b wrote: post #124

I take the opportunity to rant about cruise control / speed limit buttons, which have a much worse UX than climate control. If someone in the auto industry reads this: Can I get a button that says 50, one that says 80 and one that says 130. Right now, you have to hit “set” and then adjust the speed limit with some up and down arrows, which is really annoying and takes your eyes off the road. 99% of the time I need 50…

For me there's two additional preset :

* 100: happens during construction work on the motorway, and also for some segment of the motorway whose speed limit is dynamically managed depending on traffic

* 110: during long(ish) distance trip (incidentally, to Southern France), I drive at 110 to save some battery for my EV

At this point having cruise control working the way it works now is probably less complex than 5 presets (I agree that having to adjust the speed km-by-km sounds painful though).

Re: The subtle art of designing physical controls for cars

#164

Post by arkh »

nottorp wrote: post #144
dghlsakjg wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My 1997 Lexus has a knob that controls the digital climate control. Except that instead of a spinny position encoder, they used a knob with stops so you have tactile feedback for when the temperature is all the way up or down. This is the kind of detail that I love about a well engineered car.

That's how the knobs normally work. And the original poster describes how "automatic a/c" or "climate controls" have always worked in cars, you set a target temp and they handle fan speed and air temperature. Why does the article want to make a multifunction dial with no tactile feedback? Have they only ever driven a Tesla?

> you set a target temp

You should be able to set 2 temps.

Early morning in summer: temperature is under 15°C, no need to heat over 20°C. Evening: outside is 30°C, I don't need 20°C in the car anymore but 25ish would be perfect. A 2 temperatures setting or 1 temperature + delta would prevent having to change it every time I enter the car.

Re: The subtle art of designing physical controls for cars

#165

Post by nottorp »

arkh wrote: post #164
nottorp wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how the knobs normally work. And the original poster describes how "automatic a/c" or "climate controls" have always worked in cars, you set a target temp and they handle fan speed and air temperature. Why does the article want to make a multifunction dial with no tactile feedback? Have they only ever driven a Tesla?

> you set a target temp You should be able to set 2 temps. Early morning in summer: temperature is under 15°C, no need to heat over 20°C. Evening: outside is 30°C, I don't need 20°C in the car anymore but 25ish would be perfect. A 2 temperatures setting or 1 temperature + delta would prevent having to change it every time I enter the car.

You're designing the controls for the area you live in and for your driving patterns now.

There's some famous electric car manufacturer that did the same. His products were unusable in some locales even before he went all political.

Re: The subtle art of designing physical controls for cars

#167

Post by hgomersall »

arkh wrote: post #164
nottorp wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how the knobs normally work. And the original poster describes how "automatic a/c" or "climate controls" have always worked in cars, you set a target temp and they handle fan speed and air temperature. Why does the article want to make a multifunction dial with no tactile feedback? Have they only ever driven a Tesla?

> you set a target temp You should be able to set 2 temps. Early morning in summer: temperature is under 15°C, no need to heat over 20°C. Evening: outside is 30°C, I don't need 20°C in the car anymore but 25ish would be perfect. A 2 temperatures setting or 1 temperature + delta would prevent having to change it every time I enter the car.

You don't need any of that. You just need a knob that ranges from make as cold as you can to make as hot as you can and a reasonable fine grain in between. I can find the right set point because I'm literally sat next to the knob and I'm a better control system than anything they can come up with.

Re: The subtle art of designing physical controls for cars

#168

Post by aa-jv »

I work in the pro audio world, and have had many opportunities over the years to participate in the design review process for multiple synthesizer musical instruments.

One of the most common issues that gets people riled up is Fitts Law:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts%27s_law

It seems that many synth UI designers have small, thin, bony fingers, and overlook the issues that comes from having knobs placed too close together. They like to design tight, compact, "valuable looking" knob panels, and I like to inform them that these designs are nonsense and some consideration should be given to the spacing of things.

This has an impact on the end user with fat fingers, since moving one knob should not provide the opportunity to accidentally 'bump' or 'jog' another adjacent knob - there simply has to be space to allow for market finger types.

(In spite of the fact that these are mostly German designers, asking them to review their designs in the context of automative controls, has been a herculean effort.)

So one of my favourite toys in my arsenal when confronted with a new, fresh-faced designer full of impactful and dense design ideas, is an Arduino with an LCD display attached to a breadboard, and 4 movable knobs which can be placed in an approximation of the design. I wrote a tool that displays a UI with a fine-tune parameter, and whenever I get a chance I lay out the knobs using the designers intended dimensions, and ask them to fine-tune the parameter.

If they can do it one-handed without bumping other knobs (and thus triggering the :P emoji and siren noise), they get a pass and a check-mark on their design doc.

If, however, their dimensions make it impossible to move only a single knob, they get a little :P mark on their review documents, and my designer-killer tool gets put back in the drawer for another day.

I will have to review this toy for the context of display-in-control style interfaces in the future, it seems ..

Re: The subtle art of designing physical controls for cars

#169

Post by nbzso »

Brilliant. I need this thing for my computer. Kensington, are you seeing this? It is time to work on trackball wheel of Kensington Expert. We want haptic feedback with electric motor. One of my classic cars is a Mercedes CLK 200 Kompressor from 2000. The highest quality physical controls for this class. Joy to operate. We need this back.

Re: The subtle art of designing physical controls for cars

#170

Post by nottorp »

hgomersall wrote: post #167
arkh wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you set a target temp You should be able to set 2 temps. Early morning in summer: temperature is under 15°C, no need to heat over 20°C. Evening: outside is 30°C, I don't need 20°C in the car anymore but 25ish would be perfect. A 2 temperatures setting or 1 temperature + delta would prevent having to change it every time I enter the car.

You don't need any of that. You just need a knob that ranges from make as cold as you can to make as hot as you can and a reasonable fine grain in between. I can find the right set point because I'm literally sat next to the knob and I'm a better control system than anything they can come up with.

My (old, obsolete) car's knobs not only stop completely at the extremes, but they aren't truly continuous but have "stops" every half degree that you can feel in your hand while turning them without looking at them at all.

That's too ... physical ... for modern designs, I guess?

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