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Trump slaps tariffs on Mexico, Canada and China

cnbc.com

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Re: Trump slaps tariffs on Mexico, Canada and China

#161

Post by Timon3 »

dismalaf wrote: post #160
Timon3 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To be fair Canada and most of the EU haven't come close to fulfillment our NATO requirements since, well, ever. Which requirements are those? I'm aware of an agreed 2% GDP target for 2024, which we've reached. Are there other requirements we haven't reached?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/defence-spending-two-percen... Lol we haven't reached it and Trudeau's timeline wasn't anywhere close to 2024. We only reached ~1.3% of GDP.

Sorry, I was referring to the EU, not Canada. Should have added that.

But if I understand the requirements correctly, it was never about every country reaching 2%, only a majority. Has that not been reached?

Re: Trump slaps tariffs on Mexico, Canada and China

#162

Post by ConspiracyFact »

watwut wrote: post #54
ConspiracyFact wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if the tariffs don’t actually cost the target anything, why retaliate?

They do cost the target, the claim is not they cost nothing. But, if they costed the target nothing, you would safely retaliate, because that is rational response to someone trying to target you.

There are several articles and videos that claim that the cost of a tariff is simply passed on to the consumer.

Re: Trump slaps tariffs on Mexico, Canada and China

#163

Post by ConspiracyFact »

Marsymars wrote: post #44
ConspiracyFact wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if the tariffs don’t actually cost the target anything, why retaliate?

> But if the tariffs don’t actually cost the target anything I don’t think anybody has suggested this. Or, see my analogy; pulling a grenade pin in a moving car costs everybody.

But there are many articles that suggest exactly this.

Re: Trump slaps tariffs on Mexico, Canada and China

#164

Post by ConspiracyFact »

rsynnott wrote: post #58
ConspiracyFact wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may have worded that wrong. Articles say that they will hurt American consumers and don’t address the actual purpose of the tariffs, which is to put political pressure on their targets. If the tariffs didn’t have at least some chance of succeeding at this, the targets wouldn’t be talking about retaliation.

> If the tariffs didn’t have at least some chance of succeeding at this, the targets wouldn’t be talking about retaliation. … Eh? Retaliation is an absolutely standard part of a trade war; it virtually always happens, and, unfortunately, it can’t really be foregone. Like, people are talking about retaliatory tariffs because that is _how it works_; that is what always happens and really must happen.

Again: articles claim that tariffs are pointless because target countries simply pass the cost along to consumers. But if that were the case, there would be no reason for the targets to “retaliate”.

Re: Trump slaps tariffs on Mexico, Canada and China

#165

Post by laverya »

halostatue wrote: post #147
laverya wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The official statement from the White House calls out increased fentanyl production in Canada as the reason - but doesn't say that it's the majority of imports, you're right. The twitter summary says "There is growing production of fentanyl in Canada, and enough fentanyl was seized at the northern border last fiscal year to kill 9.8 million Americans.", though, and that seems like a lot. https://www.whitehouse.gov/fa…

This is an excuse, as an "emergency" is (effectively) the only way that such tariffs can be applied without input from Congress at all. It's also likely a lie, given the number of lies told by Trump and his supporters. The two groups which should not be believed on this are the DEA (whose entire raison d’être is predicated on making things far scarier than they are so they can increase their power — I believe they ar…

The tariffs on Canada have now been paused after a promise to enhance border security (which was reportedly already in the works)

So who knows at this point

Re: Trump slaps tariffs on Mexico, Canada and China

#166

Post by mckn1ght »

dinkumthinkum wrote: post #153
mckn1ght wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in this thread you’ve got reflexive denial, appeal to antiquity, appeal to popularity, and now no true scotsman. You’re really on a roll!

I think you like naming fallacies without knowing what they are. That is a common tactic among Flat Earthers (oh I'm sure I'll be hit with another charge here). It is is not "No True Scotsman" to say that it is hyperbolic to suggest that say that statement was Christian nationalism.

You asked for an example, and then when presented with one, said, no, that’s not really an example.

Your argument to antiquity: “that's what all of the world thought for thousands of years”

Your argument to popularity: “probably 99% or more of people in the world think today”

Not that you’re trying to use those points in a cogent way. You heard “christian nationalist” and proceeded to attack a strawman of gender advantage, which has nothing to do with it. I gave you a salient example, and you went off with a half cocked opinion, conveniently sidestepping any further discussion of the actual implications.

Re: Trump slaps tariffs on Mexico, Canada and China

#167

Post by toomuchtodo »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #127
dinkumthinkum wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> What do you think would be the actual result of such actions in the real world? In regards to the potential impact of retaliatory tariffs, I’d expect to see layoffs and business closures in red states, where voters are already economically disadvantaged; auto industry, agriculture (potash), etc. Increased grocery and basic food pricing. Farmer suicides are already 3.5x the general population, I’d expect to see the…

Chuck Grassley asks Trump for a tariff carveout - https://www.axios.com/2025/02/03/grassley-trump-tariffs-cong... - Feb 3, 2025

Re: Trump slaps tariffs on Mexico, Canada and China

#168

Post by corimaith »

TheAlchemist wrote: post #6

What's the plan here ? Tariff war with all main trading partners ? According to Trump EU tariffs are coming in soon. US can win any tariff war against a single country. They maybe could win against China or EU or Canada / Mexico alone. But all of them at once ? This is going to be a disaster for the US. Because of current sky-high stock market valuations, US thinks it's the only game in town. We will soon see if it's…

If you look at the global trade balance, most economies are essentially relying on persistently heavy trade surpluses for growth. Their domestic consumption is too weak, so instead they focus on exporting to foreign markets. And right now, the only country that is both large enough and willing to do is the USA.

That's why it's actually alot worse if it's everyone doing it, because since the majority of them are exporters, someone or many will have to take on a massive trade deficit to balance the exports. Too many sellers, not enough buyers. No one is willing to do that, and so to that extent it's important to realise that the exceptionalism of Trumpian protectionism is something that these countries perform on a day to day basis!

Nor is this system paticularly stable, with the US running a persistent current account deficit and ballooning debt as a result of it, yet the glut of foreign capital inflows and the resulting overfinancialization of the economy means that the dollar remains strong as opposed to weak and is unable to naturally rebalance.

America has been prodding these countries to reform and transition to consumption based economies like them for decades, but they haven't been doing so, so unfortunately the gravy train is over and the beggar thy neighbor policies will commence.

Re: Trump slaps tariffs on Mexico, Canada and China

#169

Post by nightowl_games »

aborsy wrote: post #159
nightowl_games wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry - what do you blame Canadian leadership for? What did they do?

Canada’s leadership could have done better in the past decades (not that they are directly responsible for these tariffs). * Canada funds and invents new technologies in early stages, but fails to commercialize them: AI, smartphones, pharmaceuticals, … * Canada hasn’t introduce measures to retain its talent. It’s too easy to be trained in Canada and work in USA. * Canada hasn’t diversified its trade. It exports aroun…

I agree with your points in general but I'm still confused - how do you connect any of these to the USA tariffs? I'm specifically asking you how you can justify this statement "I blame Canadian leadership [for the tariffs]."
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