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Over 90% of U.S. airport towers are understaffed, data shows

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Re: Over 90% of U.S. airport towers are understaffed, data shows

#161

Post by SoftTalker »

nradov wrote: post #24
giantg2 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you modernize the system (not just tech but potentially the procedures). Kind of stupid to increase air traffic and traffic density over decades and just expect the old systems to scale.

It is being modernized through the Next Generation Air Transportation System (NextGen). This will take decades and a huge amount of funding. https://www.faa.gov/nextgen They accept public comments so all of the armchair aviation experts on HN should probably send them an email and explain how they can solve all the problems by connecting ChatGPT to a controller console.

So AI has come a long way since NextGen was conceptualized. Training an AI on the historical flight activity for an airport seems .... doable? Would it be better than human controllers? We know it would not be subject to fatigue or emotional stress, and the domain is so limited that hopefully hallucinations would not be a problem.

How realistic is it to have ATC performed by an AI?

Re: Over 90% of U.S. airport towers are understaffed, data shows

#162

Post by quest88 »

buckle8017 wrote: post #154
quest88 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the article, it provides no evidence of anything you said.

It's the same thing as Jim Crow era voting tests.[0] Here take the test yourself and tell me it's not rigged. https://kaisoapbox.com/projects/faa_biographical_assessment/ [0] https://allthatsinteresting.com/voting-literacy-test

I have no idea what your argument is at this point. You claimed one thing without any evidence, and now you're saying it's like something else. Please state your point with evidence.

Re: Over 90% of U.S. airport towers are understaffed, data shows

#163

Post by BenjiWiebe »

c-cube wrote: post #152
Levitz wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because air travel is ridiculously safe. The incident with the helicopter and the plane is making the rounds precisely because of how insanely improbable it is, and even then from what we know, chances are the error was in the helicopter, not the tower.

Another (small) plane crashed in Philadelphia today. That's two in a couple days.

IIRC from another HN conversation, non commercial-airline flights crash pretty regularly. Maybe something like 1 ever couple of days?

Commercial airlines have different, far more strict regulations.

Re: Over 90% of U.S. airport towers are understaffed, data shows

#164

Post by tremon »

Levitz wrote: post #127
verzali wrote: post #97

The big question every one seems to be ignoring is whether air travel in the US should now be considered dangerous. If ATC is understaffed or filled with unqualified people, then how is any flight safe? Why would anyone get on a plane unless they really have to and have no other option?

Because air travel is ridiculously safe. The incident with the helicopter and the plane is making the rounds precisely because of how insanely improbable it is, and even then from what we know, chances are the error was in the helicopter, not the tower.

Please stop with the unnecessary platitudes. The GP is specifically asking about future safety in light of what's being discussed in the article. Continually harping on the past safety record as if it is an accurate forecast is a disservice to the parent's question.

Granted, the question was hyperbolic, but you can address that hyperbole directly rather than just giving a canned generic response.

Re: Over 90% of U.S. airport towers are understaffed, data shows

#166

Post by [deleted] »

c-cube wrote: post #152
Levitz wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because air travel is ridiculously safe. The incident with the helicopter and the plane is making the rounds precisely because of how insanely improbable it is, and even then from what we know, chances are the error was in the helicopter, not the tower.

Another (small) plane crashed in Philadelphia today. That's two in a couple days.

[deleted]

Re: Over 90% of U.S. airport towers are understaffed, data shows

#167

Post by throw0101a »

zamadatix wrote: post #109
throw0101a wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Raise pay until you have enough staff. Federal workers have just been told to leave: * https://www.opm.gov/fork

I'm not sure how relevant that is to air traffic control. They don't work from home, they are heavily performance and standards based to even get a chance at joining, and there is no clear reason to assume to automatically exclude the air traffic control portion of the FAA from what's described in #3. The US federal government is one of the largest employers in the world (or the largest, depending exactly how you dec…

> I'm not sure how relevant that is to air traffic control.

Well, they got the e-mail about resigning the day after the DC plane crash, so that probably didn't help morale.

Re: Over 90% of U.S. airport towers are understaffed, data shows

#168

Post by nradov »

giantg2 wrote: post #150
coin wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TCAS works with Mode-C (same as military Mode 3).

So why didn't it work?

This article has a good explanation of TCAS limits.

https://www.twz.com/news-features/heres-what-air-traffic-col...

Re: Over 90% of U.S. airport towers are understaffed, data shows

#169

Post by yakz »

BowBun wrote: post #132
fzeroracer wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I get an email from my superior telling me to either pledge loyalty or resign I'm going to read the very obvious writing on the wall here. You would have to be a massive idiot to not see it. And the ATC was told they're not included in the offer after the emails were already sent out. Like you trying to reframe it and add more context makes it more stupid, not less.

>pledge loyalty or resign This is made up. It's a layoff letter like we see at big corps any other week. "We're reorganizing, here's an offer, take it or not, your job might get cut in 9 months."

Well, it's not made up. I think it's fair to interpret it that way. The word 'loyal' literally appears in the text.

"Enhanced standards of conduct: The federal workforce should be comprised of employees who are reliable, loyal, trustworthy, and who strive for excellence in their daily work. Employees will be subject to enhanced standards of suitability and conduct as we move forward. Employees who engage in unlawful behavior or other misconduct will be prioritized for appropriate investigation and discipline, including termination."

Re: Over 90% of U.S. airport towers are understaffed, data shows

#170

Post by blackeyeblitzar »

Levitz wrote: post #127
verzali wrote: post #97

The big question every one seems to be ignoring is whether air travel in the US should now be considered dangerous. If ATC is understaffed or filled with unqualified people, then how is any flight safe? Why would anyone get on a plane unless they really have to and have no other option?

Because air travel is ridiculously safe. The incident with the helicopter and the plane is making the rounds precisely because of how insanely improbable it is, and even then from what we know, chances are the error was in the helicopter, not the tower.

We need to look at data on near misses as well, to understand the trends better and prevent it from becoming potentially worse.
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