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Master the Art of the Product Manager 'No'

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Re: Master the Art of the Product Manager 'No'

#161

Post by caminante »

triceratops wrote: post #146
caminante wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: climate change, what can the US and other actors do for "support" when China's still at Yes Minister step 1? China's the biggest emitter and doesn't care. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_greenhous...

Anyone can spin total emissions to suit whatever agenda they want to push. They're the world biggest emitter but that's just lines on a map. If they were 10 separate countries it wouldn't be the biggest emitter. But those emissions would still be there. China literally produces the most solar panels, electric cars, and batteries by far. In 2022 83% of new electricity generation in China was renewable ( https://news.y…

> emissions would still be there

Except not.

See this research showing that their domestic demand (ex-energy transition exports) is still massive and growing [0].

You're not alone as many on HN seem to have this misconception about greenwashing. The reality is different.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42805218

Re: Master the Art of the Product Manager 'No'

#162

Post by caminante »

DrScientist wrote: post #160
caminante wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> while China is leading on renewable generation. ...and they're also #1 by far on GHG emissions, which doesn't offset even proportionally. It's like saying Bob might be a murderer, but...he's really works hard to teach each Sunday during Bible study. You're just moving the goalpost (and you never acknowledged how your initial critique about number sense was off base). > Sure. But the current US position is to leave…

Eh? Do people in China emit less carbon per person than the US or not?

Who is disputing that fact? LOL!

Meanwhile, you can't defend how that or the cumulative argument (which you abandoned) is relevant. I've acknowledged and pointed out the flaws in these points.

Edit: I'll also note that your undefined sense of "fairness" over accountability doesn't take into account how China is using slave labor and Uygurs to build PVs.

Just take the "L".

Re: Master the Art of the Product Manager 'No'

#163

Post by triceratops »

caminante wrote: post #161
triceratops wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone can spin total emissions to suit whatever agenda they want to push. They're the world biggest emitter but that's just lines on a map. If they were 10 separate countries it wouldn't be the biggest emitter. But those emissions would still be there. China literally produces the most solar panels, electric cars, and batteries by far. In 2022 83% of new electricity generation in China was renewable ( https://news.y…

> emissions would still be there Except not. See this research showing that their domestic demand (ex-energy transition exports) is still massive and growing [0]. You're not alone as many on HN seem to have this misconception about greenwashing. The reality is different. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42805218

You misunderstood my comment. I'm not talking about emissions due to exports or emissions due to building green tech.

I'm saying the people who live there would emit the same amount whether they were 10 countries or 1. "China bad because total emissions" only comes up because they're 1 country.

> their domestic [energy] demand is still massive and growing

Of course that will happen as they develop their economy and improve their standard of living. But most of the new energy generation - 83% in 2022 - coming online is all renewable.

Would you suggest they don't develop, and remain poor? They'd be justified in saying "You first, rich Westerner". People in gigantic SUVs shouldn't throw stones at people in electric cars.

Re: Master the Art of the Product Manager 'No'

#164

Post by DrScientist »

caminante wrote: post #162
DrScientist wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh? Do people in China emit less carbon per person than the US or not?

Who is disputing that fact? LOL! Meanwhile, you can't defend how that or the cumulative argument (which you abandoned) is relevant. I've acknowledged and pointed out the flaws in these points. Edit: I'll also note that your undefined sense of "fairness" over accountability doesn't take into account how China is using slave labor and Uygurs to build PVs. Just take the "L".

It's you that's trying to move the goalposts - the original post was about per capita emissions - and it's indisputable that the US puts out more using that metric.

And in terms of prison labour ( another attempt at mis-direction by you ) - slave labour is effectively still legal in the US - the US has the largest prison population in the world ( by far ) and compulsory work from prisoners is legal.

So the US just moved from explicit slave labour, to imprisoning people and forcing them to work...... and yes - if you are from a particular racial minority you are much more likely to be subjected to this....

Re: Master the Art of the Product Manager 'No'

#165

Post by caminante »

DrScientist wrote: post #164
caminante wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is disputing that fact? LOL! Meanwhile, you can't defend how that or the cumulative argument (which you abandoned) is relevant. I've acknowledged and pointed out the flaws in these points. Edit: I'll also note that your undefined sense of "fairness" over accountability doesn't take into account how China is using slave labor and Uygurs to build PVs. Just take the "L".

It's you that's trying to move the goalposts - the original post was about per capita emissions - and it's indisputable that the US puts out more using that metric. And in terms of prison labour ( another attempt at mis-direction by you ) - slave labour is effectively still legal in the US - the US has the largest prison population in the world ( by far ) and compulsory work from prisoners is legal. So the US just mo…

> the original post was about per capita emissions

The? You mean your post. You introduced it. No wonder you're not making sense, given you can't follow your own comments.

Now you're saying slavery is legal "effectively" in the US? Stop embarrassing yourself.

Re: Master the Art of the Product Manager 'No'

#166

Post by DrScientist »

caminante wrote: post #165
DrScientist wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's you that's trying to move the goalposts - the original post was about per capita emissions - and it's indisputable that the US puts out more using that metric. And in terms of prison labour ( another attempt at mis-direction by you ) - slave labour is effectively still legal in the US - the US has the largest prison population in the world ( by far ) and compulsory work from prisoners is legal. So the US just mo…

> the original post was about per capita emissions The? You mean your post. You introduced it. No wonder you're not making sense, given you can't follow your own comments. Now you're saying slavery is legal "effectively" in the US? Stop embarrassing yourself.

1.8 million or so in US prisons.

The total world prison population is estimated at around 11.5 million.

China is second - with about 1.7 million - however that's at a rate of about 1/5 of the US.

It's legal to force those 1.8 million to work in the US and some states don't even compensate - and in addition your something like 6 times more likely to suffer it if you black.

So you have a legally endorsed method of forcing people to work in the US, often without any pay - just saying if it quacks and walks like a duck.....

Re: Master the Art of the Product Manager 'No'

#167

Post by caminante »

DrScientist wrote: post #166
caminante wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the original post was about per capita emissions The? You mean your post. You introduced it. No wonder you're not making sense, given you can't follow your own comments. Now you're saying slavery is legal "effectively" in the US? Stop embarrassing yourself.

1.8 million or so in US prisons. The total world prison population is estimated at around 11.5 million. China is second - with about 1.7 million - however that's at a rate of about 1/5 of the US. It's legal to force those 1.8 million to work in the US and some states don't even compensate - and in addition your something like 6 times more likely to suffer it if you black. So you have a legally endorsed method of forc…

LOL! You can't even switch topics without being wrong. Your figure comes from this report [0], which disputes your China figure.

> Figures for [...] China are incomplete[...] The China figures are for sentenced prisoners only. Figures for pre-trial detention and other forms of detention are not available; more than 650,000 were so held in 2009 (Supreme People’s Procuratorate). In addition, it is widely reported that more than a million Uighur Muslims are detained in camps in Xinjiang province.

Thanks for the laugh.

[0] https://www.prisonstudies.org/sites/default/files/resources/...

Re: Master the Art of the Product Manager 'No'

#168

Post by DrScientist »

caminante wrote: post #167
DrScientist wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1.8 million or so in US prisons. The total world prison population is estimated at around 11.5 million. China is second - with about 1.7 million - however that's at a rate of about 1/5 of the US. It's legal to force those 1.8 million to work in the US and some states don't even compensate - and in addition your something like 6 times more likely to suffer it if you black. So you have a legally endorsed method of forc…

LOL! You can't even switch topics without being wrong. Your figure comes from this report [0], which disputes your China figure. > Figures for [...] China are incomplete[...] The China figures are for sentenced prisoners only. Figures for pre-trial detention and other forms of detention are not available; more than 650,000 were so held in 2009 (Supreme People’s Procuratorate). In addition, it is widely reported that…

If you add those numbers - which are guess work - then the US is still ahead per capita - rather 5x more than China - simply ~2.5x.

So you are trying to deflect again - and I notice you haven't address the key point - the existence of legalized enforced labour in the US.

If you dislike what China is doing then you should also be worried about what's happening in the US.

Re: Master the Art of the Product Manager 'No'

#169

Post by caminante »

DrScientist wrote: post #168
caminante wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL! You can't even switch topics without being wrong. Your figure comes from this report [0], which disputes your China figure. > Figures for [...] China are incomplete[...] The China figures are for sentenced prisoners only. Figures for pre-trial detention and other forms of detention are not available; more than 650,000 were so held in 2009 (Supreme People’s Procuratorate). In addition, it is widely reported that…

If you add those numbers - which are guess work - then the US is still ahead per capita - rather 5x more than China - simply ~2.5x. So you are trying to deflect again - and I notice you haven't address the key point - the existence of legalized enforced labour in the US. If you dislike what China is doing then you should also be worried about what's happening in the US.

> If you add those numbers - which are guess work

Guess work? This is coming from your own source, which undermines your point!

How are you adding

a. not available pre-trial detention and other forms of detention

b. and "more than" a million Uighur Muslims?

If you can't even provide credible information, then how does one even "deflect" it?

Re: Master the Art of the Product Manager 'No'

#170

Post by davidgerard »

sureIy wrote: post #112
davidgerard wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you in the US? In UK companies, everything from that bot is somewhere between "no" and "no, fuck off". The more qualifiers you add, the ruder you're intending to be.

I thought the British were overly polite.

Mostly as a combat sport.
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