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Why do bees die when they sting you? (2021)

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Re: Why do bees die when they sting you? (2021)

#161

Post by cryptonector »

the_af wrote: post #150
cryptonector wrote: post #109

Honeybee queens are the only honeybees with stingers that don't die when they sting. That's because the queen bee's stinger has no barbs, and the reason for that is that the queen must not die easily, and she must use her stinger, so if she's going to survive at all her stinger has to not have barbs. The queen almost certainly has to use her stinger when she exits her cocoon: to kill ther other queens that are about…

> so if she's going to survive at all her stinger has to not have barbs. The queen almost certainly has to use her stinger when she exits her cocoon: to kill ther other queens that are about to hatch or have hatched already But in this particular case the queen is no different from worker bees, right? They wouldn't die either from stinging other bees...

My understanding is that the barbs in the stingers don't get stuck in insects, but I don't know if that's a fact. At any rate the queen is sometimes irreplaceable, so she needs every survival advantage possible.

Re: Why do bees die when they sting you? (2021)

#162

Post by cryptonector »

the_af wrote: post #149
cryptonector wrote: post #109

Honeybee queens are the only honeybees with stingers that don't die when they sting. That's because the queen bee's stinger has no barbs, and the reason for that is that the queen must not die easily, and she must use her stinger, so if she's going to survive at all her stinger has to not have barbs. The queen almost certainly has to use her stinger when she exits her cocoon: to kill ther other queens that are about…

Very interesting! Don't wasps have a similar "swarm attack" mode that doesn't require individual wasps dying to spread pheromones? Something in the sting/venom itself? I've been stung by wasp swarms twice, in the same area (they were protecting their nest, and please don't ask why it happened twice... we humans do indeed stumble with the same stone twice!). The wasps were very aggressive stinging near the same locati…

Wasps absolutely have attack pheromones, and they absolutely spread those when they get injured (in the same way that bees do when they're injured) and when they attack (but here they might be able to do it "consciously"?).

What's nice about wasp stings is that because the stinger with the venom pouch and pump doesn't get stuck in your skin you get a much smaller dose than with a bee sting.

When I've been stung by bees where the stinger didn't get stuck in my skin the sting was no big deal. When the stinger gets stuck in my skin it's much worse.

Re: Why do bees die when they sting you? (2021)

#164

Post by cryptonector »

treis wrote: post #136
cryptonector wrote: post #109

Honeybee queens are the only honeybees with stingers that don't die when they sting. That's because the queen bee's stinger has no barbs, and the reason for that is that the queen must not die easily, and she must use her stinger, so if she's going to survive at all her stinger has to not have barbs. The queen almost certainly has to use her stinger when she exits her cocoon: to kill ther other queens that are about…

>The queen almost certainly has to use her stinger when she exits her cocoon: to kill ther other queens I think this is one of the more interesting differences. Plenty of species operate in groups. But its usually a dominant male with a harem. Bees and the like are unusual in that it's a dominant female. I think it's related to the ease of reproduction. The females put relatively little into their off spring compared…

There are bees that are monogamous, where the female and the male act a lot more like birds as far as mating and young rearing goes, and there are eusocial bees that where the female absolutely dominates.

Honeybees keep very few males (drones) around, and in the Fall they push them out of the hive and let them die of exposure to the elements. Honeybee workers work themselves to death. The queen is their slave. It's a pretty crappy life, but they make wonderful honey, and they collect wonderful propolis.

Re: Why do bees die when they sting you? (2021)

#165

Post by zamfi »

cryptonector wrote: post #164
treis wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The queen almost certainly has to use her stinger when she exits her cocoon: to kill ther other queens I think this is one of the more interesting differences. Plenty of species operate in groups. But its usually a dominant male with a harem. Bees and the like are unusual in that it's a dominant female. I think it's related to the ease of reproduction. The females put relatively little into their off spring compared…

There are bees that are monogamous, where the female and the male act a lot more like birds as far as mating and young rearing goes, and there are eusocial bees that where the female absolutely dominates. Honeybees keep very few males (drones) around, and in the Fall they push them out of the hive and let them die of exposure to the elements. Honeybee workers work themselves to death. The queen is their slave. It's a…

> It's a pretty crappy life

By human standards, sure.

Weird take I know, but since only one female bee in the hive passes along her genes (which are shared with the other bees), it's a very different incentive structure.

Re: Why do bees die when they sting you? (2021)

#166

Post by cryptonector »

cryptonector wrote: post #109

Honeybee queens are the only honeybees with stingers that don't die when they sting. That's because the queen bee's stinger has no barbs, and the reason for that is that the queen must not die easily, and she must use her stinger, so if she's going to survive at all her stinger has to not have barbs. The queen almost certainly has to use her stinger when she exits her cocoon: to kill ther other queens that are about…

BTW, when I get stung, if the stinger doesn't get stuck I sometimes don't even notice till much later -- this happens when I get stung through my gloves. If the stinger does get stuck in my skin the first thing I notice is the buzzing of the bee that stung me. The frequency of the buzzing of the bee that stung me and that is trying to rip off the stinger is absolutely terrifying because I know what comes next: a dozen more bees will flock right to where the one bee stung me and will all try to sting me, and since the one bee was able to it might be the case that her sisters will succeed as well. That buzzing spreads her injury pheromones, and the frequency of its sound also acts as a very loud and clear signal to her sisters. The buzzing lasts about 1 second or less; the pain from the sting comes a second or two later. It takes her sisters about 1 to 2 seconds to find the bee that stings successfully. Getting stung by a dozen bees at once is panic inducing, and the swelling that will create will take two weeks to subside. I was stung 13 times at once one time, and 5 times another time. It's no fun.

Re: Why do bees die when they sting you? (2021)

#167

Post by thaumasiotes »

tsimionescu wrote: post #101
thaumasiotes wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there's a larger problem in the post. The primary reason that a bee dies when it stings you is that you kill the bee. A bee stinging an inanimate hunk of meat is unlikely to die. But they can die, and yeah, a big part of the reason why is that dying isn't as large of a cost for bees as you might expect from a human perspective. And looping back, another part is that given the very high risk of being intentional…

Per everything I've ever read on this, a bee that has stung meat is no longer able to survive. It will either try to pull itself out and disembowel itself, or it will remain stack and die of hunger. What makes you think a bee that stings, say, a dog that can't swat it will then go on to survive?

Watching a youtube video by a beekeeper demonstrating that a bee stuck in his arm will gently wiggle itself around until it can pull free and fly away. Between that one guy with his live demonstration and his plentiful experience being stung by bees, and you with everything you've ever read, I'm obviously going to stick with him.

You should read better sources.

Here, an example of how bees behave after stinging meat: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/7wH8dYiGbig

Or here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-C77ujnLZo

A bee that stings meat will pull itself out unharmed, if you let it.

Re: Why do bees die when they sting you? (2021)

#168

Post by cryptonector »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #112
spqr0a1 wrote: post #19

While a bee stinger may get stuck in you, that's not so when stinging fellow insects. The barbs don't catch on an exoskeleton like they do for thick and elastic mammalian skin. An elegant way to deliver more venom to larger targets.

If you're careful with the index fingers of opposite hands, you can remove the stinger from your skin without killing the bee.

Not really. The bee that stings you will flap her wings very vigorously, and it will rip its stinger off in less than a second trying to get away from you. Unless you're deliberately trying to get stung and save her, you won't have a chance.

Re: Why do bees die when they sting you? (2021)

#169

Post by cryptonector »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #167
tsimionescu wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per everything I've ever read on this, a bee that has stung meat is no longer able to survive. It will either try to pull itself out and disembowel itself, or it will remain stack and die of hunger. What makes you think a bee that stings, say, a dog that can't swat it will then go on to survive?

Watching a youtube video by a beekeeper demonstrating that a bee stuck in his arm will gently wiggle itself around until it can pull free and fly away. Between that one guy with his live demonstration and his plentiful experience being stung by bees, and you with everything you've ever read, I'm obviously going to stick with him. You should read better sources. Here, an example of how bees behave after stinging meat:…

Not at all my experience. My Italian bees are pretty hot though, so that may be why. My Russian bees are much nicer, and I've never been even stung by one of them, so maybe that's it. My hot bees will rip their stinger out within a second, and they emit a very particular frequency that I feel and that lets me know very quickly that I'm in trouble -- to be fair I've only experienced that vibration a handful of times because I've gotten much better at not leaving any exposed skin or any way for them to get in my suit.

All those bee rescue videos you see where the beekeeper doesn't wear a veil are not telling you the whole story. Before they go work on extracting the hive they'll first check that those bees are not hot and angry. If those bees are africanized then they'll use a suit and smoke and they will not bother making or posting a video about it. I.e., those videos are all cherry-picked experiences, all the good ones.

Re: Why do bees die when they sting you? (2021)

#170

Post by ternnoburn »

cryptonector wrote: post #158
stavros wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does she go out to mate? Aren't the drones in the hive?

The drones in the hive are her brothers. She needs more gentic diversity, so she goes out to mate with other colonies' drones. Her attendants know where to go find them because they've scouted them before.

The drones are also clones (?) of the prior queen. They are unfertilized eggs, so they contain a genetic copy of half the queen's DNA. Mating with a drone from you hive would be like mating directly with your genetic mother. It's going to result in real bad inbreeding real quickly. Especially since queens mate a single time, and live for only a few years.
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