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Why Canada Should Join the EU

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Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#161

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

skissane wrote: post #100
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only the free movement of labor is really unusual. As in ... really, really, really unusual. Lots of trade deals include variations of the first 3 ... free movement of labor is basically unheard of between nation states as part of trade deals.

Australia and New Zealand have both free trade and free movement of people between them. They aren't formally linked – free trade is a treaty, free movement of people is just an "arrangement" (not a legally binding agreement under international law, rather a political agreement implemented in each country's immigration law) – but it is all part of the overall multifaceted bilateral relationship.

Well, that gets the heart of what's do revolutionary about the EU's basic premises. "You want to move capital and profits and materials without limit? Sure, no problem, but only if labor has the same freedom."

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#164

Post by valunord »

krapp wrote: post #141
valunord wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s set aside the jokes for a second... there’s a case to be made for Canada, Greenland, and the US forming a closer political and economic union. Not as some imperialistic land grab, but as a pragmatic response to shifting global power dynamics and shared interests. Just hang on - this isn't as crazy as it sounds! Think about it: - There would be a shared defense and infrastructure: NORAD already has the US and Ca…

>there’s a case to be made for Canada, Greenland, and the US forming a closer political and economic union. Not as some imperialistic land grab, but as a pragmatic response to shifting global power dynamics and shared interests. Canada I understand. But why Greenland, other than the fact that Trump saw it in the window and decided he wanted it? The US already has a base there, it doesn't seem to be that vital to our…

So while it's kinda hard to see at first blush perhaps, Greenland plays an actual critical role in North American security and economic interests - far more than it might seem at first glance. Yeah, Trump's interest aside (which definitely brought some unnecessary circus to the topic), Greenland’s value lies in a few key areas:

- Strategic Arctic positioning. It's central to Arctic geopolitics. While the Arctic ice melts, new shipping lanes are opening up, and countries are vying for control over these routes and untapped resources. The US already maintains a military presence at Thule Air Base, but integrating Greenland more formally would secure this position and reduce the risk of competing interests (think Russia and China making moves in the region - which they are very, very much doing).

- Resource potential. Greenland's rich in rare earth minerals and many others that are critical to modern tech and defense industries. These materials are currently dominated by Chinese markets. Greenland’s dev could diversify supply chains and reduce Western reliance on Chinese exports. This is SO insanely critical right now.

- You might not like this one, but: think geopolitical stability... Denmark’s grip on Greenland isn’t absolute. There’s been growing interest within Greenland towards greater autonomy, and while full independence is really complicated and economically (ultra) risky, stronger ties to North America would absolutely offer an appealing middle ground and protect the people of Greenland itself.

Ultimately if we ignore Greenland it feels like we're leaving a crucial puzzle piece out.

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#165

Post by valunord »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #148
valunord wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s set aside the jokes for a second... there’s a case to be made for Canada, Greenland, and the US forming a closer political and economic union. Not as some imperialistic land grab, but as a pragmatic response to shifting global power dynamics and shared interests. Just hang on - this isn't as crazy as it sounds! Think about it: - There would be a shared defense and infrastructure: NORAD already has the US and Ca…

Greenland is Denmark. Why are you including it? (FWIW Inuit in Greenland are better off than their peers in Canada [or Alaska]. Higher quality of life) The reason Canada and the US are not closer than they already already -- which is very close -- comes down to the same story it has for over 200 years: massive political cultural divide. "Peace, Order, and Good Government" vs "Don't Tread On Me" or whatever. American…

Read my reply to krapp above.

But yeah, Greenland's not just Denmark's icy backyard... it’s a strategic Arctic outpost sitting on rare earth minerals and shipping lanes that are about to become prime real estate as the ice melts. The US already camps out at Thule Air Base for a reason, and with Russia and China eyeing the region hard, folding Greenland into a North American framework isn’t about expansionism, but rather it’s about locking down resources and supply chains before someone else does. Greenland’s been flirting with more autonomy anyway, and when the time comes, stronger North American ties could offer stability without the economic freefall of full independence. Ignoring Greenland while the Arctic heats up (literally and politically) is leaving the back door wide open.

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#166

Post by mmooss »

ziofill wrote: post #15

Canada needs houses, not people.

The number of houses isn't fixed, nor are almost any other resource. The way economics works, each average person produces significantly more than they consume.

Someone living alone in a cabin is (economically) poor. Someone in a small town may have customers, but not many, and it's going to be hard to expand. What you need is more people - more people buying, more people to work for you.

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#167

Post by belorn »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #128
tsimionescu wrote: post #6

> Canada’s inclusive treatment of its indigenous peoples, at least in recent decades, could be emulated by Europeans (though First Nations Canadians might fairly object to closer ties with ex-colonists) I really wonder what the author meant with this line. There's very few populations in Europe that bear any similarity whatsoever with the relationship between First Nations people and most Canadians, since most popula…

> And the few tribal populations in Northern Europe generally were and certainly are today treated at least as fairly as anything in Canada. Really? The Sami populations don't have any sovereignty that I know of.

Is sovereignty the criteria for being treated fairly?

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#168

Post by threeseed »

buzzert wrote: post #137
zo1 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's also unaware of the controversy and debate many places in Europe are having over immigration. At this point I'd really like to know what country doesn't have some large backlash and controversy against immigration.

Generally, countries with expanding economies and a lot of physical space do not have issues with immigration. The US has its problems, but the argument generally has been over the extent of immigration, and not against immigration entirely (minority extremists notwithstanding). Canada is interesting in this regard, because it has a lot of land but a contracting economy.

Australia has had major political issues with immigration over the decades.

And we have an expanding economy and a ridiculous amount of free space.

So not sure your thesis works.

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#169

Post by cmrdporcupine »

valunord wrote: post #165
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Greenland is Denmark. Why are you including it? (FWIW Inuit in Greenland are better off than their peers in Canada [or Alaska]. Higher quality of life) The reason Canada and the US are not closer than they already already -- which is very close -- comes down to the same story it has for over 200 years: massive political cultural divide. "Peace, Order, and Good Government" vs "Don't Tread On Me" or whatever. American…

Read my reply to krapp above. But yeah, Greenland's not just Denmark's icy backyard... it’s a strategic Arctic outpost sitting on rare earth minerals and shipping lanes that are about to become prime real estate as the ice melts. The US already camps out at Thule Air Base for a reason, and with Russia and China eyeing the region hard, folding Greenland into a North American framework isn’t about expansionism, but rat…

Right, so some more manifest destiny junk.

The people of Denmark and Canada don't want to be part of the US. How about that?

Re: Why Canada Should Join the EU

#170

Post by tills13 »

paxys wrote: post #156
darth_avocado wrote: post #72

Canada needs people? I thought the recent controversy is all about Canada having too many people and the pro immigration government also taking a more tempered immigration stance?

Canada has a population of 40 million in a land area larger than the USA. That's hardly "too many people". Too many people in a handful of dense urban centers maybe, but overall the country is basically empty.

The argument is that we are taking on too many people and neither jobs nor housing completions are keeping up. There is an element of truth in that however our birthrate is not sustainable, either, so we're caught between those two eventualities.
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