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I still don't think companies serve you ads based on your microphone

simonwillison.net

161–170 of 361 posts

Re: I still don't think companies serve you ads based on your microphone

#161
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

someone probably googled “kayak” from your wifi?

Hmmm, I live alone and in a pretty remote area (on an island). I keep my wifi pretty secure, so, that seems pretty unlikely. But who knows, anything is possible I suppose. Maybe because I live on an island.

>Hmmm, I live alone and in a pretty remote area (on an island).

A kayak seems like a practical purchase if you live on an island.

Re: I still don't think companies serve you ads based on your microphone

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did they pick a swimming pool? Did they see people in their area installing pools? I think that's often people's best guess, is that the "random" thing people use to test this actually isn't random and subconsciously they already had this topic seeded to them.

I know my iPhone isn’t listening to me. And I know about my friend’s activity influencing the ads I get served, and my demographic, and location, and all of that. And my random idea for a test word being predictable in a shocking way. But, recently I started thinking about the average user, who will install anything and approve any permissions requested without reading it. And imperfect App Store reviews approving a…

Ugh how long until a new freemium model comes out where you can either pay with money or pay with microphone access…

Re: I still don't think companies serve you ads based on your microphone

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We know from leaks, reverse-engineering, and personal experience that this spying is going on. No we don't. There isn't any of that. This is flat earthing for technophiles.

Except they've been literally boasting they can do it? https://www.404media.co/heres-the-pitch-deck-for-active-list...

That doesn't say what you think it does.

Re: I still don't think companies serve you ads based on your microphone

#164
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple lost a lawsuit over Siri spying "inadvertently" very recently That's what my article is about: it's about how I'm certain people will use this settled-out-of-court lawsuit as "evidence" that Apple are spying and targeting ads, but it's very clear that's not what was happening here.

Apple settled because they knew they would lose. Winning is good PR since they (falsely) claim to be favorable for privacy. They are only superficially better than Google in that regard. I did skim your article and it's not as bad as I thought. I think you really mean it when you say these are just coincidences. But they're not. Another one I forgot to mention: Google explicitly tracks your location history unless yo…

The Google track your location history thing is true. You can confirm by using Google takeout to extract your location history.

The microphone thing is false. You can try the takeout feature (or equivalent) across multiple providers to confirm that.

Re: I still don't think companies serve you ads based on your microphone

#166

They don't need to: they can read your mind. My proof? Yesterday I was driving home and I saw an old Toyota Previa minivan and thought to myself "Oh, a Previa, you don't see those very often these days." When I got home, I started scrolling through my Google News and it showed me an advert for the new Previa. I agree with Simon: you basically aren't going to convince someone that their phone doesn't listen to you and…

Had something similar happen to me. I wanted a mid sized ladder. Didn't search for it or even tell anyone that I was looking for a ladder but suddenly started getting a bunch of ads for ladders. Eventually I figured out that when I went hiking a few days earlier, I forgot to turn off my Fitbit after I got done. On the way home, I stopped at Walmart and looked at the ladders they had. I could see on my Fitbit account my path through the state park and through the Walmart, including the section with the ladders that I dwelled in front of for a while. That was enough to trigger some set of parameters somewhere and get me ladder advertisements.

Re: I still don't think companies serve you ads based on your microphone

#167

Many mobile apps use an adtech SDK which does on-device audio keyword spotting. The company making this SDK is super secretive, so not much information about it.

If "many mobile apps" use it surely some docs or other details have leaked out somewhere? Or at least a name?

Re: I still don't think companies serve you ads based on your microphone

#168
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple settled because they knew they would lose. Winning is good PR since they (falsely) claim to be favorable for privacy. They are only superficially better than Google in that regard. I did skim your article and it's not as bad as I thought. I think you really mean it when you say these are just coincidences. But they're not. Another one I forgot to mention: Google explicitly tracks your location history unless yo…

The Google track your location history thing is true. You can confirm by using Google takeout to extract your location history. The microphone thing is false. You can try the takeout feature (or equivalent) across multiple providers to confirm that.

I don't trust takeout features completely, honestly. Takeout only gives you YOUR data and not all your acquaintances' data, which can be assembled by companies you don't even know exist to profile YOU. The companies you deal with then have no obligation to share it with you, because to them they are only leasing access to data that they sold off or some crap. It's like how the government can't collect this data but they can buy it. The same trick is everywhere.

I seriously don't trust anything on a very deep level. Like I said, I've seen too much evidence that these companies are run by snakes that can only be trusted in certain ways. You might not agree, and I'm not prepared to argue all that tonight (I keep hitting the comment rate limit anyway). Just try to remain skeptical both ways if you don't believe we're being spied on, ok?

Re: I still don't think companies serve you ads based on your microphone

#169
post #67

One thing that is rarely discussed in relation to this urban myth is that it is widely believe and yet it doesn't actually effect the behavior of most believers. That is one of the major reasons why most companies and many governments don't care about privacy, the public doesn't really care about it either. People will of course choose privacy over no privacy with all else being equal, but privacy is the first thing…

I went back to my family for this christmas, and argued about privacy, I think it was about free email services again, and stuff likes this. And again - I just cannot understand it - the response was:

Yeah but I don't care, I have nothing to hide, let them have my data.

It's a slap in the face of me, trying to meticulously remove all internet access of programs and devices that don't need it, and moving from all free and not-privacy-friendly services to mostly paid and private-friendly ones - probably "losing" a big chunk of my lifetime doing this. I feel paranoid sometimes, when I hear this argument.

Re: I still don't think companies serve you ads based on your microphone

#170
Ask HN - let's say hypothetically, our phones are as bad as some think. Face camera taking covert pics, regular screenshots sent back home, microphone recording every conversation, every message, email, and bit of internet traffic scraped and harvested for ads and anything else - how would you change your habits if you knew this was happening?

Answer - you wouldn't.

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