Live data from Hacker News

Google's Results Are Infested, Open AI Is Using Their Playbook from the 2000s

chuckwnelson.com

161–170 of 504 posts

Re: Google's Results Are Infested, Open AI Is Using Their Playbook from the 2000s

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course the savvy are using LLMs now, but they’re also reckoning with two things: * you have to check an LLM result, especially if it cites something (because it may or may not exist) * you can’t cite an LLM result It’s a useful tool, but it lacks certain utility features that a useful web + effective search has. Or had.

> Of course the savvy are using LLMs now I don't think this is true at all. It is people prone to hype, or who are naive, who are using LLMs. The savvy know that a tool which you have to verify every single time (because it isn't deterministic and makes shit up) isn't actually saving you any effort.

The point that there’s effort involved in verification is an important one and definitely part of any thorough inventory of liabilities and advantages of LLMs.

I am less convinced this means it’s always a wash (or worse). Sometimes it’s good to have something to start with. “You can’t edit a blank page” is a truism among fiction and non-fiction writers of all stripes for a reason. Of course, the quality of what you start with matters, and it matters more the less of an evaluatory mindset you come to your tools with. I know at least some earlier adopters have that mindset, but perhaps I’m too optimistic about how it generalizes.

Re: Google's Results Are Infested, Open AI Is Using Their Playbook from the 2000s

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> some people use caffeine powder / pills for gym stuff apparently. At 200mg per pill, which is the strongest I had, I'd still have to down some 70+ pills in one go. Not strictly impossible, but not something you could possibly do by accident, and even for the purpose of early check-out, it wouldn't be my first choice.

the problem isn’t someone’s intent (on purpose/by accident). it’s intent (want to improve my gym performance so down a bunch of caffeine) combined with incorrect information gained from what is supposedly a trustworthy source (the limit presented is much higher than it actually is for humans).

If they're searching for LD50, they're already setting themselves up for errors, even with the right information. The LD50 isn't a safe dose, after all, but the mean lethal dose. While it's not great if its wrong, if people search for an LD50 thinking it indicates what they can safely take, it's already going to be hard to protect them against themselves.

Re: Google's Results Are Infested, Open AI Is Using Their Playbook from the 2000s

#163
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps a more common question: "How many calories do men need to lose weight?" Google AI responded: "To lose weight, men typically need to reduce their daily calorie intake by 1,500 - 1,800 calories" Which is obviously dangerous advice. IMO Google AI overviews should not show up for anything (a) medical or (b) numerical. LLMs just aren't safe enough yet.

I think even when the answer is "right" in some sense, it should probably come within the context of a bunch of caveats, explanations, etc. But maybe I'm just weird. Oftentimes when my wife or kids ask me a question, I take a deep breath and start to say something like "I know what you're asking, but there's not a simple or straightforward answer; it's important to first understand ____ or define ____..." by which ti…

> I think even when the answer is "right" in some sense, it should probably come within the context of a bunch of caveats, explanations, etc.

Funnily enough, this is exactly what the LLM does with these questions. So well that people usually try to tweak their prompts so they don't have to wade through additional info, context, hedging, and caveats.

Re: Google's Results Are Infested, Open AI Is Using Their Playbook from the 2000s

#164
This. I think Amazon is doing the same thing and leaving the door open for Walmart or another player with some logistical muscle to take a bunch of the market from them. Amazon search used to be so simple. Now you sift through so many ads and hidden ad garbage to find the thing you want to buy.

Re: Google's Results Are Infested, Open AI Is Using Their Playbook from the 2000s

#165
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answers come from the same websites. They just get stripped of their traffic. As someone who puts a ton of work into writing accurate, helpful guides, it's devastating to have my work plundered like that. Once these monopolies have successfully established themselves, they will become indistinguishable from the ad-invested websites they replace. The only difference is that they will create no new information of t…

Where are you publishing your guides? Would love to add another bookmark to my collection.

Do you just like collecting links to online "guides" to anything? No preference for any subject matter, just a collection of random "guides"? Interesting, you could make a guide for that!

Re: Google's Results Are Infested, Open AI Is Using Their Playbook from the 2000s

#168
post #2

People want to spend less time on a task. Whichever tool succeeds at this will win.

Sadly, this is true. Getting the wrong answers quickly is valued more than having to work for the right answers.

I fear the day that the poor kids who grew up believing everything LLMs hard out will reach a position of power.

Re: Google's Results Are Infested, Open AI Is Using Their Playbook from the 2000s

#169
This is correct. A ton of the hype about LLMs is you can type in a question and get a direct answer without needing to struggle through listicles. Phenomenal compared to the trash a search result provides.

Is is ironic that LLMs are the source of much of the garbage in search results. Good business model to produce unbearable noise and the filter that recovers some signal, I guess.

Re: Google's Results Are Infested, Open AI Is Using Their Playbook from the 2000s

#170
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were you not googling before? They had a bullet point summary that was actually more accurate because it scraped direct quotes from the website. Now I am getting wrong info from the ai summary. Its a huge step back from just what was there previously but its sold as some advancement.

It definitely didn't seem more accurate to me. If quite frequently either scraped quotes that weren't actually an answer to my search (the webpage was correct, but the link between my search and the webpage was not), or it was an answer but the answer was wrong (because the webpage was wrong). The AI summary now isn't perfect because it can still regurgitate wrong information from the Internet, or hallucinate informa…

Agreed.

My friend and I used to paste pre-AI Google search snippets to each other when they were so bad, especially when it quoted a comment on Reddit.

Post reply on HN