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The unbearable slowness of being: Why do we live at 10 bits/s?

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Re: The unbearable slowness of being: Why do we live at 10 bits/s?

#161

It seems very odd that the article seems to be measuring the information content of specific tasks that the brain is doing or specific objects that it is perceiving. But the brain is a general-purpose computer, not a speed-card computer, or English text computer, or binary digit computer, or Rubik's cube computer. When you look at a Rubik's cube, you don't just pick out specific positions of colored squares relative…

The PhD student writing this could be excused for being young an inexperienced but their advisor, tagged second on the paper, should have cut this off at the pass.

Re: The unbearable slowness of being: Why do we live at 10 bits/s?

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My thoughts exactly. It makes no sense to me that what I'm thinking and perceiving in real-time is the equivalent of 10 bit/s of data.

Has anyone here even read more than the title? The article literally explains that you perceive at a rate of 10^9 bits per second. But after filtering and preprocessing in the outer brain you are only left with about 10 bits per second for conscious processing for things like motor functions. Yes, you can see a Rubic's cube and perceive all sorts of facts about it and the environment at the same time. But try solving…

What conscious motor processing? My motor functions largely take care of themselves while I daydream when walking or consider where I want to steer while driving.

Re: The unbearable slowness of being: Why do we live at 10 bits/s?

#163
> More generally, the information throughput of human behavior is about 10 bits/s.

I'm sorry, I just can't take this article seriously. They make a fundamental mistake of encoding and assume that information is discretized into word-sized or action-sized chunks.

A good example is a seemingly discrete activity such as playing a musical instrument, like a guitar. A guitar has frets and strings, a seemingly small number of finite notes it can play. So it would seem a perfect candidate for discretization along the lines of the musical scale. But any guitar player or listener knows that a guitar is not a keyboard or midi synth:

1. The attack velocity and angle of the pick intones aggression and emotion, not just along a few prescribed lines like "an angry or sad or loud or quiet".

2. Timing idiosyncracies like being slightly before or after a beat, or speeding up or slowing down, or even arhythmic; the entire expression of a piece of music is changed by subtleties in phrasing.

3. Microbends. The analog nature of strings cannot be hidden entirely behind frets. Differences in the amount of pressure, how close to the fret the fingers are, and slight bending of the strings, intentional or unintentional, static or dynamic, change the pitch of the note.

4. Non-striking sounds like the amount of palming, pick scraping, tapping, and sympathetic vibrations.

Of course there are lots of other things. All of these things make the difference between a master guitar player, say Hendrix, and someone just playing the same notes.

And yes of course we can consider the encoding of the audio coming out of the guitar to be information--at a much higher bitrate, but what about the facial expressions, body language, etc? There are tons of channels coming off a musician, particularly live performances.

This entire article just misses these in picking a quantized encoding of information that of course has a low bitrate. In short, they are missing bazillions of channels, not the least of which is expression and timing.

Re: The unbearable slowness of being: Why do we live at 10 bits/s?

#164

It seems very odd that the article seems to be measuring the information content of specific tasks that the brain is doing or specific objects that it is perceiving. But the brain is a general-purpose computer, not a speed-card computer, or English text computer, or binary digit computer, or Rubik's cube computer. When you look at a Rubik's cube, you don't just pick out specific positions of colored squares relative…

Such reductionist analyses are reliably blind to the complexity of being embodied in physical reality.

Should they analyse everything all at once? Your comment seems reductionist to the realities of writing a paper on a specific subject.

Re: The unbearable slowness of being: Why do we live at 10 bits/s?

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone without an inner monologue, and someone that's spent a LOT of time meditating, it's not the language. It's the attention mechanisms themselves. Buddhist scholars insist that while we can have multiple threads of attention in our awareness, like strings with pearls of experience/thoughts we can only actually hold one little pearl of information from that stream in our attention at a time, and that we flit b…

What you're describing here is software, not hardware—Cognitive Science is the relevant field, not Neuroscience. That said, your understanding is largely supported by our current understanding of consciousness, attention, and perception. The attention mechanism doesn't handle parallel processing well—but can operate "multi-threaded", where it juggles several foci at once (with some obvious cost to switching between t…

we may only be aware of a single thread at any given time

We may be not a single mind, but a bunch of minds. It just happens that the mind that “you” are reads this and has written the above comment, cause it’s of that kind (just like “all biological beings in this thread happen to be humans” type of a filter). Other minds can live completely different lives, just inside the same skull. And share emotions and thoughts with you sometimes from their prison.

This “aware” part is pretty mysterious, because the physical mind could operate without it perfectly. But for some reason, the space containing a mind experiences this awareness thing.

Re: The unbearable slowness of being: Why do we live at 10 bits/s?

#166
It seems the authors conflate a problem bring easy to state with little processing power being needed to solve it. This obviously isn't true, very complex mathematical problems can be stated in very few bits. Human interactions often can be extremely complex, even though they are relatively slow.

Reading a text isn't about matching symbols to words. It is about taking these words and putting them into a social context, potentially even doubting their content or imagining the inner world of the author. Obviously that is what the "inner" brain (which existence seems very dubious to me) has to do.

I see absolutely no paradox at all.

Re: The unbearable slowness of being: Why do we live at 10 bits/s?

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My thoughts exactly. It makes no sense to me that what I'm thinking and perceiving in real-time is the equivalent of 10 bit/s of data.

Has anyone here even read more than the title? The article literally explains that you perceive at a rate of 10^9 bits per second. But after filtering and preprocessing in the outer brain you are only left with about 10 bits per second for conscious processing for things like motor functions. Yes, you can see a Rubic's cube and perceive all sorts of facts about it and the environment at the same time. But try solving…

You're missing my point. I'm saying that `try solving it with your hands while someone shows you a bunch of objects and asks you visual comprehension questions at the same time` is more than 10 bit/s of data being processed. I'm saying made up "tasks and outcomes" in this study are not a measure of the brain's throughput IN THE INNER LAYERS.

Re: The unbearable slowness of being: Why do we live at 10 bits/s?

#168

Where do they get 10 bits/second? Heck, I can type way faster than 10 bits per second, even after gzipping the output. And when I consider the amount of sensory information that I consciously process (not that comes in, but that I conceptually analyze), it's got to be way higher. 10 bits/s doesn't pass the smell test.

The response to the question of "where do they get 10 bits/second" can be found in the paper, in great detail if I might add.

I was iterating over the different citations for bitrate, at least some of them, like Starcraft and the Rubik's cube, are literally a Guinness Book of Records that's a tiny blurb about APMs and a video of a guy solving the rubik's cube.

Going from APM and/or image wiggling to "bits per second" is .... hilariously reductive and I struggle to consider this response to be woefully incomplete at convincing this reader.

And yeah, my immediate response to reading the title was "where the hell are they getting that number", so I have gone and looked and am unsatisfied.

Re: The unbearable slowness of being: Why do we live at 10 bits/s?

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My thoughts exactly. It makes no sense to me that what I'm thinking and perceiving in real-time is the equivalent of 10 bit/s of data.

Has anyone here even read more than the title? The article literally explains that you perceive at a rate of 10^9 bits per second. But after filtering and preprocessing in the outer brain you are only left with about 10 bits per second for conscious processing for things like motor functions. Yes, you can see a Rubic's cube and perceive all sorts of facts about it and the environment at the same time. But try solving…

Listen to a podcast at double speed. Assuming a normal talking speed of 150 words per minute, 300 words per minute of written word is not 10 bits per second.
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