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Nyxt: The Hacker's Browser

nyxt.atlas.engineer

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Re: Nyxt: The Hacker's Browser

#161

Post by hyperhopper »

pasc1878 wrote: post #69
poincaredisk wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't get the hype of keyboard == hacker mentality. This is not about a hype or "looking cool". Mouse and GUIs are faster and more ergonomic for exploratory activities ("how do I do X" for a new task, skimming a document or folder, etc), while keyboard (keyboard shortcuts, command line) is faster for routine, repeatable tasks. Web browsing is full of the latter. I personally strongly prefer the keyboard and find i…

Browsing is mainly of exploration (e.g. reading) then data entry (which does require a keyboard but all on one page no scrolling) and much less repeatable tasks. My hand is usually already on the mouse. Switching apps, scrolling text etc. I started on PC-DOS and mainframes so was originally all keyboard, but having mouse made things much easier for me. Now don't get me started on gestures - I can never remember any.…

> My hand is usually already on the mouse. Switching apps, scrolling text etc.

When using Linux my hand is almost never on the mouse and I groan when I have to do it. My terminal, browser experience, mp3 player, IRC client, etc, are all usable with only a key board. Even rearranging windows is just a keyboard action.

Even on windows, I can't remember the last time I switched windows with a mouse instead of alt tab. Scrolling text is just pressing j in vimium or even in vanilla chrome just pressing spacebar. If your hand is on the mouse that much you're probably not being optimal

Re: Nyxt: The Hacker's Browser

#162

Post by hakfoo »

poincaredisk wrote: post #60
pjmlp wrote: post #54

As someone that started in computing when affordable computing was all about keyboard, and mices only existed in computers with prices similar to buying a car or a mortgage, I don't get the hype of keyboard == hacker mentality. Specially since that on my hacker circle of Demoscene, during the 16 bit days, we were mostly on Atari and Amiga systems, then we had plenty of mouse time, and no one ever stop to wonder we we…

>I don't get the hype of keyboard == hacker mentality. This is not about a hype or "looking cool". Mouse and GUIs are faster and more ergonomic for exploratory activities ("how do I do X" for a new task, skimming a document or folder, etc), while keyboard (keyboard shortcuts, command line) is faster for routine, repeatable tasks. Web browsing is full of the latter. I personally strongly prefer the keyboard and find i…

I was surprised that Trackpoint-style devices still remain a niche product since it explicitly solves the "I need to move the cursor but don't want to reach for the mouse" problem.

I'm aware of about four models of standalone keyboard with it available, but that's trivial even compared to the bazillion keyboards with touchpads for couch typing.

Re: Nyxt: The Hacker's Browser

#163

Post by paulryanrogers »

opan wrote: post #134
corank wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For text editors or IDEs, basically contexts where we expect a lot of typing, I get why sticking to the keyboard is desirable. I don't get how it's better to browse the web without using the mouse. Most of the time on the web I just read, not type.

>Most of the time on the web I just read, not type. This is kind of why it works. In vim you spend most of your time in normal mode, reading, moving around, making quick edits. It takes good advantage of the whole keyboard even when you're not writing new text. I use qutebrowser, which has default vim-style bindings for everything and an emphasis on the keyboard. It works very well.

I wonder how much of that is how and when one comes up in the industry. I learned a little vi at uni only by necessity after years of DOS and Windows 3/9x. It felt so awkward. Decades later I only use vi on servers, but slowly its macro ('normal') mode has grown on me.

Re: Nyxt: The Hacker's Browser

#165

Post by vunderba »

pjmlp wrote: post #54

As someone that started in computing when affordable computing was all about keyboard, and mices only existed in computers with prices similar to buying a car or a mortgage, I don't get the hype of keyboard == hacker mentality. Specially since that on my hacker circle of Demoscene, during the 16 bit days, we were mostly on Atari and Amiga systems, then we had plenty of mouse time, and no one ever stop to wonder we we…

I think you're projecting a bit. I'm sure there are a few weird KEYBOARD VS MOUSE people that occupy the same bizarre neurotic domain space as TABS VS SPACES, but most people just have their own personal preference and leave it at that.

Personally, it's not about what's faster - it's about switching. If my hands are already resting lightly on the keyboard, then the keyboard is faster - and vice versa.

To decrease the amount of switching I have to do, I use an extension called Vimium that quickly highlights all links with key bindings. For example "g i" automatically puts the first level field into focus.

https://github.com/philc/vimium

Re: Nyxt: The Hacker's Browser

#166

Post by skydhash »

anonzzzies wrote: post #105
ucosty wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're talking about a web browser, right? What workflow?

You use the browser only to browse? We have all kinds of, usually quite shitty, web apps all types of LoB, ERP, etc. There is a lot of workflow to improve on. Not necessarily with Nyxt or keyboard of course.

Even with a pdf browser, keyboard shortcuts come in handy. Especially with a big enough screen so that you can display the whole page at once.

Re: Nyxt: The Hacker's Browser

#167

Post by anthk »

gcanyon wrote: post #123
anonzzzies wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still miss Wordperfect for that reason: messing around with Word wysiwyg, even with people who have decades of experience, is just painful to watch or do.

WordStar!!! :-) I wrote two novels in that thing.

Check WordTsar

Re: Nyxt: The Hacker's Browser

#168

Post by antasvara »

pjmlp wrote: post #54

As someone that started in computing when affordable computing was all about keyboard, and mices only existed in computers with prices similar to buying a car or a mortgage, I don't get the hype of keyboard == hacker mentality. Specially since that on my hacker circle of Demoscene, during the 16 bit days, we were mostly on Atari and Amiga systems, then we had plenty of mouse time, and no one ever stop to wonder we we…

As a younger person, I've never really been alive for a computer that had no mouse.

So for people of my generation, it's really only the tech savvy ones that would use key commands for anything but the most rudimentary stuff (think copy, paste, save, and print).

Thats not to say that keyboard == hacker mentality, but that a keyboard-first tool like this wouldn't really target the average consumer at this point.

Re: Nyxt: The Hacker's Browser

#169

Post by pjmlp »

hyperhopper wrote: post #161
pasc1878 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Browsing is mainly of exploration (e.g. reading) then data entry (which does require a keyboard but all on one page no scrolling) and much less repeatable tasks. My hand is usually already on the mouse. Switching apps, scrolling text etc. I started on PC-DOS and mainframes so was originally all keyboard, but having mouse made things much easier for me. Now don't get me started on gestures - I can never remember any.…

> My hand is usually already on the mouse. Switching apps, scrolling text etc. When using Linux my hand is almost never on the mouse and I groan when I have to do it. My terminal, browser experience, mp3 player, IRC client, etc, are all usable with only a key board. Even rearranging windows is just a keyboard action. Even on windows, I can't remember the last time I switched windows with a mouse instead of alt tab. S…

What a wonderful DG/UX like user experience....

Re: Nyxt: The Hacker's Browser

#170

Post by ramenbytes »

qwertox wrote: post #158
kstenerud wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an elitism thing. Notice the terminology "investing time to dramatically speed up workflow". This is the mantra that the keyboard-only adherents have latched onto, and extend to EVERYTHING, including things that are perfectly serviced via mouse control, or don't even need speeding up. Arguing with them is like arguing with audiophiles.

What strikes me as odd is that this browser is not in a terminal, but in a window. So no usage through SSH, no terminal benefits, which are the origin of the keyboard-oriented workflow. When I press F12, does an inspector open? Where does it open? When I select some words, how do I send them to a new tab in YouTube, Amazon, Google or Stack Overflow? How do I open all the links which are within a selected rectangle in…

> When I press F12, does an inspector open? Where does it open? When I select some words, how do I send them to a new tab in YouTube, Amazon, Google or Stack Overflow? How do I open all the links which are within a selected rectangle in new background tabs? Or use uBlock Origin's element picker?

What did you think of the demos? The sorts of things you mentioned seem like things doable in NYXT based on the demos, possibly even the exact sort of stuff they are trying to make possible. It looks like it's basically Common Lisp with a web browser attached, which suggests it should be fairly moldable too. I have not seriously used it myself though, so I can't say for sure what the limits are.

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