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UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Manhattan

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Re: UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Manhattan

#161

Post by MichaelZuo »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #111
MichaelZuo wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it’s very unfortunate for all Americans that rely on any healthcare company. Since they will all be increasing their rates soon to cover the expenses of 24/7 armed guards, armored vehicles, etc… Edit: Or a reduction in service quality to cover the new expenses.

As someone who endured UHC for several years, I assure you there is no service quality to reduce. > How do they still have that many customers if their service was so bad? Because the people making the decision to purchase UHC services and using UHC services are two wildly different demographics.

How do they still have that many customers if their service was so bad?

Do they have an effective monopoly in certain States?

Re: UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Manhattan

#162

Post by InsideOutSanta »

marky1991 wrote: post #112
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not this commenter, but how I've often heard it expressed was we created the justice system as a better, more civilized alternative to putting people in holes just outside of town. At such a time the justice system stops working, as it increasingly seems to have RE: the rich, then we resume holes.

This entire line of thinking just seems to be essentially advocacy for a return to that exact system. "Do what we want or we'll go back to random murder". I wonder if the original commenter would have put the same comment if the article were "man shoots his wife and her lover on discovery of adultery"

I don't know about the original commenter, but societies only work when the vast majority weigh the cost and benefit they derive from the status quo against the cost and potential benefit they incur by fighting against it, and decide that they're better off playing along.

Rightly or wrongly, we now have a situation where a lot of people believe that they no longer benefit from society, and are in fact harmed by it, while they also see a few benefit greatly. I believe this is why many people who understand the implication of that choice would still rather vote for Trump, who promises to break things, than for Harris, who would have only made minor changes.

This is not advocacy for anything. I think these people are perhaps not exactly wrong, but they don't correctly estimate the cost of breaking a democratic system, even a poorly working one.

Re: UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Manhattan

#163

Post by vundercind »

francisofascii wrote: post #64
jeffbee wrote: post #42

Always seemed pretty strange to me that you can build and oversee an organization widely perceived (whether fairly or not) as evil, host what those evil-perceivers will view as Bad Rich Guy Conference in public, in a country where anyone can get as many guns as they want, and there isn't more violence like this. Seems like an unstable operating point for a society.

If these ultra wealthy CEOs don't have body guards now, they will after this. If you are making millions a year, why wouldn't you.

Even the Secret Service doesn't have a great track record for preventing attempts. Their presence puts some stress on the perpetrators, which does help, and they are good at preventing quick wide-open follow-ups to a miss or partial success, but they're bad at preventing the first shot or two. And I don't think it's because they're exceptionally bad at what they do, but because if someone really wants to take a shot, entirely stopping them is a hard problem by the time they're already close and armed.

Re: UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Manhattan

#164

Post by toomuchtodo »

kasey_junk wrote: post #159
toomuchtodo wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is what the law says, and what people are physically cable of. I am being realistic, but you are free to challenge that realism with paperwork that can be ignored by folks who would seek out the hardware mentioned. There are laws against murder, how did that go today? I am making observations of an operating environment, and don't hold strong opinions on gun rights and similar. More, "What am I dealing with as…

Your argument started by talking about loose laws for firearm purchases. Not about being “physically capable” of. It then transitioned directly to talking about suppressor availability. I think it’s reasonable to point out that they are different legal regimes if only for other people confused by your abrupt and silent transition away from talking about laws.

Fair points, I simply don't (subjectively, imho, ymmv) believe it is that hard, legally or illegally, to acquire or possess firearms and accessories for them in most US jurisdictions. "The purpose of the system is what it does" sort of thing. Appreciate the discussion! "Don't break the law" PSA.

Re: UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Manhattan

#165

Post by lotsofpulp »

criddell wrote: post #137
lotsofpulp wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source?

https://www.npr.org/2017/01/10/509164679/from-the-start-obam...

> Sarah Palin coined the phrase "death panel" in a widely shared Facebook post.

Does not support the claim

> we let insurance companies label government triage as "death panels"

Re: UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Manhattan

#166

Post by mossTechnician »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #67
bottom999mottob wrote: post #36

What a dystopian world we live in where oligarchs controlling anti-trust companies deny medical coverage [0]. Am I surprised this happened... [0] https://www.propublica.org/article/unitedhealth-healthcare-i...

[flagged]

"Americans consume too much healthcare"? I'm afraid to guess the logical conclusion to this, but I will counter with "Americans are offered two little preventative healthcare", because in more advanced countries where that is an option, the costs are lower.

Re: UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Manhattan

#167

Post by Eumenes »

busterarm wrote: post #94
mikeyouse wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol what? Neighbors and loose friends buy guns from each other all the time. In Michigan at least, you only even need a permit if it's a handgun -- rifles and shotguns don't require an iota of state involvement and as long as you're reasonably sure the buyer isn't a prohibited person, there's no real liability either.

Only if you're idiots. Edit: Especially the kind that would post about it on the internet and snitch on themselves and attract undue attention from the ATF. But yeah, some very small percentage of people are stupid and/or criminal. 99.99% of gun purchases in the US happen through an FFL with a background check and everything.

> 99.99% of gun purchases in the US happen through an FFL with a background check and everything

Alot of states have classified pages where you can buy/sell firearms. Many states don't require background checks for private sales. People aren't paying a gun shop a FFL transfer/background check fee to hand over the gun to the buyer. Source: have seen many of these transactions at rod and gun clubs.

Re: UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Manhattan

#168

Post by [deleted] »

francisofascii wrote: post #64
jeffbee wrote: post #42

Always seemed pretty strange to me that you can build and oversee an organization widely perceived (whether fairly or not) as evil, host what those evil-perceivers will view as Bad Rich Guy Conference in public, in a country where anyone can get as many guns as they want, and there isn't more violence like this. Seems like an unstable operating point for a society.

If these ultra wealthy CEOs don't have body guards now, they will after this. If you are making millions a year, why wouldn't you.

[deleted]

Re: UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Manhattan

#170

Post by lotsofpulp »

snakeyjake wrote: post #155
HDThoreaun wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The primary reason for the cost difference is the massive network of middlemen injected into the system, and rampant profiteering by for-profit healthcare companies. Average cost of 1 vial of insulin in France: $9.08 Average cost of 1 vial of insulin in the US: $98.70 HDThoreaun: huffing some libertarian shit "The people are using too much insulin." https://www.rand.org/pubs/articles/2021/the-astronomical-pri... http…

It’s not middlemen. The middlemen (managed care organizations, aka health insurance companies) earn low single digit profit margins.

In the US healthcare chain, the ranking of profit margins goes (and this is public info from public financials):

Pharmaceutical companies

Healthcare software companies (based on other software company margins)

Healthcare providers (doctor groups)

Hospitals (HCA, tenet, etc)

Managed care organizations and retail pharmacies at the very bottom.

The big one I don’t know is legal, which I assume slots between hospitals and healthcare providers, but could be higher. Those millions and tens of millions of dollar judgments don’t come from thin air.

Go ahead and get rid of MCOs, and at best you will reduce costs by 5%. That’s an objective fact. They are just allocating the very limited resources among more and more demand.

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