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Murderbot, she wrote

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Re: Murderbot, she wrote

#161

Post by jamesog »

georgeecollins wrote: post #30
imzadi wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another good one is Service Model by Adrian Tchaikovsky Also, I feel like if I am recommending something I have to recommend Dungeon Crawler Carl, which is my current obsession. I've read all the books multiple times in multiple formats, but it's not much like Murderbot.

Children of Time by Adrian Tchaikovsky is also very good imo.

Children of Time needs to come with a huge content warning for those with arachnophobia. I got through it, but I didn't enjoy it, for that reason.

Re: Murderbot, she wrote

#162

Post by the_af »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #157
the_af wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I found cool about Murderbot is that there's no implication "it" is of any particular gender. I'm a man, so I went in with my prejudices and automatically assumed Murderbot is a "he". When reading a review that considered it a "she", I re-read most of it and there's no single indication of its gender, if Murderbot even assumes one. I found that interesting, kind of like that trick Ursula K. Le Guin pulled w…

I don't think it's fair to call that a trick of Le Guin's. She does tell the reader the first time it's relevant, which is fairly early on. In any case it's explicit in the text. Which is very different from the sort post facto declarations other fantasy authors have made about their characters in response to fandom theories, which does feel sly to me.

Yeah, on second thought I don't think it's fair either. I didn't mean "trick" in a derogatory sense. In fact I was praising Le Guin!

I do think it's unquestionable that she was purposefully subverting and playing with the standard expectations of fantasy novels written by white and male authors.

I think Martha Wells does a bit of the same with her depiction of both Murderbot as well as -- in general -- the role of women in her series. In particular Dr. Mensah impressed me: she's fair, intelligent, and in charge. She's not an action hero nor does she know her way around extreme violence, yet she's not downplayed as incompetent or lost (arguably after overcoming some initial naivete); in fact she's possibly the most competent character (in things other than killing people, of course).

Re: Murderbot, she wrote

#163

Post by whimsicalism »

derwiki wrote: post #131
jandrese wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the first three books of the Imperial Radh (Ancillary Justice) series and for all of the love they get online I found them rather dull. There's this fairly dramatic collapse of a galaxy spanning empire happening in the background while the protagonist frets over the level of offense she might cause at the tea party if she chooses to wear the more scandalous gloves. The last book gets a bit more into the fractu…

I have a nagging feeling that Collapsing Empire isn’t “good” literature (the swearing and sex?) but really enjoyed it, along with the other Scalzi books I’ve read. As others have pointed out, the reason for collapse are unique compared to other collapsing empire stories.

Scalzi is not highbrow sci-fi (whereas the Radch series is a bit), but it’s still good!

Re: Murderbot, she wrote

#165

Post by southernplaces7 »

whimsicalism wrote: post #113
adamgordonbell wrote: post #6

Super fun popcorn sci-fi books. I enjoyed them all. Popcorn thrillers are books that are lighter in content, jam-packed with entertainment value, and not too dark, and meant to be read in one sitting.

if you like that style, i think you would also like Lois McMaster Bujold and John Scalzi's books

The Old Man's War series by Scalzi is a solid example of this, but if you want to go much further back for a classic similar story, try "The Forever War" by Joe Haldeman. Absolutely wonderful, and a bit more neatly dry than Scalzi, like an aged whiskey.

Re: Murderbot, she wrote

#166

Post by Slippery_John »

VyseofArcadia wrote: post #37
SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that is a new and interesting protagonist tbh. So many are heros or have to develop into heroism. It’s refreshing to just have someone who explicitly doesn’t save the world or similar stakes.

Maybe the pop culture obsession is new, but the snarky, reluctant protagonist is something I have seen enough to be kind of tired of. Off the top of my head, Murderbot also reminds me of the protagonist of Sixteen Ways to Defend a Walled City which I recently read. If you enjoyed Murderbot, take that as a recommendation, although it is less sci-fi and more historical fiction.

Orhan is quite different though - he's a braggart unreliably narrating his own story after most of the events have transpired. You can't believe his reluctance, it's a show he's putting on to make himself look better. The entire story feels like it too, credit to the author.

Murderbot is not that. What you see of them is as genuine as their perspective can be. Murderbot may be snarky, but it doesn't have the same braggadocious air, and I do think that changes the character and story significantly. And if you're a similar kind of neuro-atypical then it can be a refreshing bit of heroic representation.

I will give Sixteen Ways some credit though - at least it ended. I don't particularly like the ending, but it is one. Murderbot falls off hard by the time the series gets to full length novels.

Re: Murderbot, she wrote

#167

Post by NBJack »

derwiki wrote: post #131
jandrese wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the first three books of the Imperial Radh (Ancillary Justice) series and for all of the love they get online I found them rather dull. There's this fairly dramatic collapse of a galaxy spanning empire happening in the background while the protagonist frets over the level of offense she might cause at the tea party if she chooses to wear the more scandalous gloves. The last book gets a bit more into the fractu…

I have a nagging feeling that Collapsing Empire isn’t “good” literature (the swearing and sex?) but really enjoyed it, along with the other Scalzi books I’ve read. As others have pointed out, the reason for collapse are unique compared to other collapsing empire stories.

Sex? Scalzi barely touches the subject; contrast that with Arthur C. Clark and his, ah, more detailed scenes, or Heinlein. And I've read quite a few of Scalzi's works (including the Empire series).

Can you offer a comparison? I don't have a good understanding of your baseline.

Re: Murderbot, she wrote

#168

Post by Something1234 »

msabalau wrote: post #78
jandrese wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the first three books of the Imperial Radh (Ancillary Justice) series and for all of the love they get online I found them rather dull. There's this fairly dramatic collapse of a galaxy spanning empire happening in the background while the protagonist frets over the level of offense she might cause at the tea party if she chooses to wear the more scandalous gloves. The last book gets a bit more into the fractu…

As a matter of taste, fair enough. But having recently read about all etiquette concerns of the Japanese admirals doing their life or death struggles during WWII, it hardly seems unrealistic. For a lot of people, seeing people navigate multiple military/social/political spheres is part of the appeal of imperial fiction.

Book recommendation about Japanese etiquette are very welcome. I was reading chip war recently and the wife of the Sony ceo throwing American dinner parties was insanely interesting to me.

Re: Murderbot, she wrote

#169

Post by int_19h »

m463 wrote: post #80
vundercind wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have found recommendations of (especially) genre novels from people I don't personally know to be nearly useless. The usual problem is that the work is just OK but gets talked up like it's great. Sometimes, it's outright bad. I've got enough past actually-greats—genre and otherwise—to catch up on, I don't need 100 "OMG it's so good!" comments from a dozen sites steering me toward a newer book that turns out to be p…

I agree. When I first used to go to bookstores, the "highly recommended!" books tended to be star wars type books. Even author recommendations are hit or miss. I loved well's murderbot series. I tried her other books (Raksura) but it wasn't as fun. I found American Gods to be highly praised, and though it was hard to get through. Gaiman's short story "How to talk to girls at parties" was fun though. https://neilgaima…

To this day, I'm confused how "Three Body Problem" won so many awards. To me it reads like a really bad fanfic.

Re: Murderbot, she wrote

#170

Post by NBJack »

randomcarbloke wrote: post #148
jandrese wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the first three books of the Imperial Radh (Ancillary Justice) series and for all of the love they get online I found them rather dull. There's this fairly dramatic collapse of a galaxy spanning empire happening in the background while the protagonist frets over the level of offense she might cause at the tea party if she chooses to wear the more scandalous gloves. The last book gets a bit more into the fractu…

I really like Scalzi's ideas, I just can't stand his execution.

Much of a fan as I am of his works, some of them certainly fall flat. Lock In is a great example; I loved his world building, but both of his first two books felt like it channeled Matlock or CSI with their endings, with exposition and some kind of reveal that felt out of character. I also admit lost interest in Old Man's War after The Last Colony.

Redshirts however is a master class in satire of Trek, and Starter Villain made me laugh.

I also admit Wil Wheaton's narration of his books always feels spot on to me.

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