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Why Companies Are Ditching the Cloud: The Rise of Cloud Repatriation

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Re: Why Companies Are Ditching the Cloud: The Rise of Cloud Repatriation

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep transition to cloud-first is still such a challenge for many big organizations

Any large scale transition actually !

The transition has to be accompanied by a revamp of all the technical processes associated with IT provisioning, which is too much and too risky to do.

Re: Why Companies Are Ditching the Cloud: The Rise of Cloud Repatriation

#162
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In simple terms, yes. The term “native” refers to adopting the vendor’s technology stack, which typically includes managed data stores, containerized microservices, serverless functions, and immutable infrastructure.

Thanks. I work for a very large org, and cloud benefits are not obvious to me ( ie we’re large enough to absorb the cost of a team managing k8s for everyone, another team managing our own data centers around the world etc ). I view cloud as mutualizing costs and expertise with other people ( engineers and infra), but adding a very hefty margin on top of it, along with vendor lockin. If you’re big enough to mutualize…

Yes, the profit margin for cloud providers is very real—and quite costly.

I think one point that’s often overlooked is the knowledge gap between the engineers at cloud providers (such as systems, platform, or site reliability engineers) and those that an individual company, even a large one, is able to hire.

This gap is a key reason why some companies are willing—or even forced—to pay the premium.

If average or mediocre management skills and a moderately complex tech stack are sufficient, then on-premise can still be the most cost-effective choice today.

Re: Why Companies Are Ditching the Cloud: The Rise of Cloud Repatriation

#163
post #121
post #4

I don't know that 37Signals counts as a "major enterprise". Their Cloud exodus can't have been more than a few dozen servers, right? Meanwhile AWS is growing at 20%/year, Azure at 33% and GCP at 35%. That doesn't seem compatible with any kind of major cloud repatriation trend.

37signals spends more than $3M a year on cloud. So while it definitely isn't a major enterprise. It is also a lot more than a a few dozen servers. I am not anti-cloud and pro cloud. My major problem with the new trend is that a lot of people are basically rediscovering pre "Cloud" era. which is VPS, Dedicated server and Colocation. And people are suggesting Hetzner or OVH or many other players are equivalent to AWS.…

My opinion from analyzing the 37signals cloud offboard case is that it shouldn't have been done.

They didn't save a whole lot of money from it (they aren't spending a whole lot on it anyway), and now their business ever so slightly loses focus. Not to mention, as you said, the quality aspects. Cloud gives you many things "for free" (like local disk RAID, network and power redundancy, datacenter compliance, in-transit and on-disk encryption, optimized OS images, overall network security, controls around what their employees can do - that $5/month lowendbox provider from Romania is almost certainly logging into your VM and going through your files) which you lose when going to a "pre-cloud" provider.

Re: Why Companies Are Ditching the Cloud: The Rise of Cloud Repatriation

#165
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

37signals spends more than $3M a year on cloud. So while it definitely isn't a major enterprise. It is also a lot more than a a few dozen servers. I am not anti-cloud and pro cloud. My major problem with the new trend is that a lot of people are basically rediscovering pre "Cloud" era. which is VPS, Dedicated server and Colocation. And people are suggesting Hetzner or OVH or many other players are equivalent to AWS.…

My opinion from analyzing the 37signals cloud offboard case is that it shouldn't have been done. They didn't save a whole lot of money from it (they aren't spending a whole lot on it anyway), and now their business ever so slightly loses focus. Not to mention, as you said, the quality aspects. Cloud gives you many things "for free" (like local disk RAID, network and power redundancy, datacenter compliance, in-transit…

there's a mile of difference between Romanian lowendbox.com and renting a cage in, say, an equinix datacentre

if this approach to DC compliance/security/redundancy is good enough for the world's financial services industry then it's probably good enough for everyone else too

(but yes, then only saves about 90% of the cost instead of 95%)

Re: Why Companies Are Ditching the Cloud: The Rise of Cloud Repatriation

#166
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're chonky devices which were not really off-the-shelf until the last decade, as far as I know. There's very few images of them, but a smaller one looks like this: https://www.pv-magazine.com/2018/03/14/pilot-project-for-fly...

Very cool. Somehow I missed the idea of flywheels used to store energy. I assumed one that small would peter out in seconds.

These were huge. In fact iirc the power that came into the building spun them, and the DC ran off the resultant generated electricity. So the risk at cutover is minimal, there is in fact no loss of electricity unless the wheel drops below the required revs.

One of these units blew at one point. We had 4 and only needed two running, so no big deal. The company who managed the whole thing (Swiss) came to replace it. Amazing job, they had to put it on small rollers, like industrial roller skates, then embed hooks in the walls at each corridor junction, and slowly winch the thing along, it was like watching the minute hand of a clock.

Then the whole process in reverse to bring in the new one. Was fascinating to watch. The guy in charge was a giant, built like a brick outhouse. They knew their stuff.

Re: Why Companies Are Ditching the Cloud: The Rise of Cloud Repatriation

#167
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

aws and other hyperscalers will keep growing, no doubt. Public cloud adoption is at around 20%. So the new companies that migrate into the cloud will keep the growth going. That doesn't deny the fact that some might be repatriating though. Especially ones that couldn't get the benefits out of the cloud.

One thing I've seen in every startup I've been in over the last decade is that cloud asset management is relatively poor. Now I'm not certain that enterprise is better or worse, but ultimately when I think back 10+ years ago resources were finite. With that limitation came self-imposed policing of utilization. Looking at cloud infrastructure today it is very easy for organizations to lose sight on production vs frivo…

Yep. Developers leave and when they go, dev resources are often left running. Sometimes, it is whole environments. This junk adds up.

Re: Why Companies Are Ditching the Cloud: The Rise of Cloud Repatriation

#168
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very cool. Somehow I missed the idea of flywheels used to store energy. I assumed one that small would peter out in seconds.

These were huge. In fact iirc the power that came into the building spun them, and the DC ran off the resultant generated electricity. So the risk at cutover is minimal, there is in fact no loss of electricity unless the wheel drops below the required revs. One of these units blew at one point. We had 4 and only needed two running, so no big deal. The company who managed the whole thing (Swiss) came to replace it. Am…

That whole story is clutch. Thanks a ton.

Re: Why Companies Are Ditching the Cloud: The Rise of Cloud Repatriation

#169
post #121
post #4

I don't know that 37Signals counts as a "major enterprise". Their Cloud exodus can't have been more than a few dozen servers, right? Meanwhile AWS is growing at 20%/year, Azure at 33% and GCP at 35%. That doesn't seem compatible with any kind of major cloud repatriation trend.

37signals spends more than $3M a year on cloud. So while it definitely isn't a major enterprise. It is also a lot more than a a few dozen servers. I am not anti-cloud and pro cloud. My major problem with the new trend is that a lot of people are basically rediscovering pre "Cloud" era. which is VPS, Dedicated server and Colocation. And people are suggesting Hetzner or OVH or many other players are equivalent to AWS.…

There is indeed a large gap in the market between outsourcing all your infrastructure to Hyperscalers vs. hosting it on DIY-bare-metal and/or VPC providers. An open source alternative to AWS would do much to fill that gap, and we are building just that at Ubicloud (I'm one of the co-founders).

So far with Ubicloud, you get virtual machines, load balancers, private networking, managed PostgreSQL, all with encryption at rest and in-transit. The Ubicloud managed service uses Hetzner bare metal as one of its hosting providers, which cuts costs 2x - 10x compared to AWS/Azure. Would love to hear any feedback if you'd like to give it a try, or go through the repo here: https://github.com/ubicloud/ubicloud

Re: Why Companies Are Ditching the Cloud: The Rise of Cloud Repatriation

#170
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, dedicated business fiber from sunrise.

Sorry, I should have been more specific: does this offer stands if I need 200G ? Is the bandwith garanteed (as-in: I can use it all day long, as would a datacenter do) or is it burst-only (so its targets are homes and offices) ? I expect the latter

I have 10Gbit/s guaranteed with 100Gbit/s burst.
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