Have devs at any of the large tech companies ever tried to unionize? If not, why not?
New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike
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Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike
#162I am also a member of the union at NPR, on the subway headed to the picket line in solidarity right now. Happy to answer any questions. I encourage everyone to respect the picket line and get your news elsewhere until the workers get a deal. The Times Workers are holding the line against arbitrary return to office mandates and for Just Cause protections. The vast majority of HN consists of developers, designers, QA,…
According to Maggie Astor, news is not behind the picket line - NYT Games and Cooking are BEHIND THE PICKET LINE. Please don’t play or engage with Games or Cooking content while the strike lasts! News coverage — including election coverage — is NOT behind the picket line. It’s okay to read and share that, though the site and app may very well have problems. https://bsky.app/profile/maggieastor.bsky.social/post/3la4qg…
I stand corrected! My apologies.
Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
When I see people critique those numbers as being “too high”, or demands for additional compensation “unreasonable”, I can’t help but think those people don’t understand that $100k is very much the new $45k of the 2000s, and has much less purchasing power than the latter did at the time. Truth be told, for the present cost of living in the Northeast in general, you’re looking at a family income of $300k to be “comfor…
>I can’t help but think those people don’t understand that $100k is very much the new $45k of the 2000s, and has much less purchasing power than the latter did at the time. False. $45k in 2005 is only $73k today, when adjusted for inflation[1]. Even if you use the most generous interpretation of "2000s" to mean 2000, that's only $82k. [1] https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
All of my bills say “bull shit”.
I’m sure getting it that low means ignoring housing, and making everything in the “basket of goods” worse.
Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike
#164> more than 600 software developers Does anyone have a sense for how this breaks down? I would never have guessed so many full-time employees were necessary to maintain a CMS.
I'm almost certain that 600 software developers is wrong and that it's actually 600 people in the whole union (software developers, data analysts, designers, and product managers). When I was at NYT in 2021 there were like ~300 software developers. Which still seems like a lot but they have legacy COBOL (converted to java) systems to interact with the ancient printing press technologies around the world, a payments t…
They've also been pioneers in datavis. Mike Bostock (D3/Observable) had a long stint there, and I think Rich Harris (Svelte/Rollup) still is.
Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike
#165> more than 600 software developers Does anyone have a sense for how this breaks down? I would never have guessed so many full-time employees were necessary to maintain a CMS.
Is this comment made every time by hacker news people? “I run my basement website with in my spare time? Why can’t one of the most popular websites in the world run on gum and a few paper clips”
The comment was more like: "I don't understand why they need 600 developers, but I'd like to learn. Anyone know what they're doing?"
Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike
#166From the WSJ’s reporting on this: > Most employees in the tech union receive pay of more than $100,000, and average compensation, including bonus and restricted stock units, is $190,000, according to a Times spokeswoman. That figure is an average of $40,000 more than members of the Times’s journalist union, she said. > Times leaders have also bristled at the nature of some of the guild’s requests. The union previousl…
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Ehhh, this is the counter-argument from the employer. That $190K seems highly dubious. I, an at-will employee earn ~60% more via benefits... and let me tell you that's definitely not the same as cash.
And the pet bereavement et al sounds like bargaining chips (no better proof than them being dropped in the negotiation process.)
Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know about the NYT, but in my country newspapers are fighting for their lives, financially. Newspapers closing down and others laying off staff is a regular occurance. Print newspapers are essentially dead. Online news? Barely anyone pays for that. Online with ads? Reddit/twitter/facebook/youtube pay zero dollars for the content they put ads on. If you're in tech and you want to maximise your salary - a compa…
The NYT has money. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/04/business/media/new-york-t... > The company’s adjusted operating profit for the quarter, which ran from July through September, rose 16.1 percent to $104.2 million, from $89.8 million a year before. Overall revenue increased 7 percent to $640.2 million, compared with the same period in 2023. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/07/business/media/new-york-t... > The comp…
Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Negotiations between it and the Times hit logjams over things like a “just cause” provision that prevents the company from firing workers unless it’s for something like misconduct, as well as pay increases, pay equity, and return-to-office policies, reports the Times. https://www.theverge.com/2024/11/4/24287600/new-york-times-t... I dunno. It is a negotiation between the union and the company. They might not have p…
As a foreigner it’s so alien to me that such a provision isn’t mandated by law anyway, and that there isn’t broad support in the population to restrict employers from firing at will… wild.
Exactly! US workers have to fight tooth and nail for things that employees can just expect from other countries. That's why strikes like this are such a big deal.
Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
One of the things they're striking against is arbitrary return to office mandates . Why did you leave off two words that change the nature of what they're fighting for? Other folks have already pointed out the "rights" unions have fought for that we take for granted today. On top of that, being in a union is about solidarity with your fellow workers. You can support your coworkers' who need or just want to work from…
> One of the things they're striking against is arbitrary return to office mandates. If it is arbitrary, why is the NYT seemingly standing firm on the issue? As the article tells, NYT have agreed to a seven month grace period to give workers a chance to get their houses in order. That is not indicative of an arbitrary move. Perhaps you mean they are striking against mandates that are motivated by undisclosed reasons?
If it is arbitrary, why is the NYT seemingly standing firm on the issue?
You'll have to ask NYT management if you're curious why they're doing something. I can venture a guess though. A lot of companies use RTO mandates as a way to avoid layoffs (and the negative press and severance requirements that come with them). This seems to go hand in hand with the demand for "just cause".
As the article tells, NYT have agreed to a seven month grace period to give workers a chance to get their houses in order. That is not indicative of an arbitrary move.
This doesn't follow.
Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Negotiations between it and the Times hit logjams over things like a “just cause” provision that prevents the company from firing workers unless it’s for something like misconduct, as well as pay increases, pay equity, and return-to-office policies, reports the Times. https://www.theverge.com/2024/11/4/24287600/new-york-times-t... I dunno. It is a negotiation between the union and the company. They might not have p…
As a foreigner it’s so alien to me that such a provision isn’t mandated by law anyway, and that there isn’t broad support in the population to restrict employers from firing at will… wild.
because working with poor performing coworkers is soul crushing, and having a bad boss even worse