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Adobe's new image rotation tool is one of the most impressive AI tools seen

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Re: Adobe's new image rotation tool is one of the most impressive AI tools seen

#161

Post by crazygringo »

swatcoder wrote: post #156
crazygringo wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The presence or absence of some subtle new magic wand icon that shows up in the toolbar is neither making nor breaking anyone's business. Sounds like famous last words to me. The corporate landscape is filled with the corpses of companies that thought they didn't need to rush to adapt to new technologies. That they'd have time to react if something really did take off in the end. Just think of how Kodak bided its t…

You're comparing being 3 months behind on a supplementary software feature that's tucked among dozens of icons on the toolbar with making a hard decision about pivoting your entire megalithic industrial, research, sales, and distribution infrastructure to a radically new technology. The discussion you started is about spamming features to see what sticks, as set against making deliberate, selective product decisions…

Digital photography started out as a supplementary toy as well. And we are starting to witness a gigantic computational infrastructure pivot with GPU's and NPU's and whatnot. Google and Amazon are literally signing nuclear power plant agreements to power it. AI is a radically new technology.

Do you remember two years ago when ChatGPT came out, and people here on HN were confidently declaring it was the end of Google Search, unless Google proved they could respond immediately? And Google released Gemini less than six months later to demonstrate that Search wasn't going to go the way of Kodak, and it still took people a while to calm down after that?

And the AI revolution is moving a lot faster than the digital photography revolution. We're not talking about "the next 10 or 20 years". You seem to be severely underestimating the power of competition and technological progress, and the ability for it to put you out of business.

You're suggesting the correct approach is "deliberate, selective product decisions as you confidently observe your market." What happens when your deliberation is too slow, your selectivity turns out to be wrong, and your confidence is ill-founded? Well, the company that was willing to experiment with a lot more features is more likely to build the winning features and take over the market while you were busy deliberating.

I'm surprised to be having this conversation on HN, where the start-up ethos reigns supreme. The whole idea of the tech world is to try new things and fail fast, because it's better for everyone in the long run. That's what the big corporations are doing with AI features. Isn't that the kind of thing that tech entrepreneurs are supposed to celebrate?

Re: Adobe's new image rotation tool is one of the most impressive AI tools seen

#162

Post by bee_rider »

metalliqaz wrote: post #154
latexr wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They aren’t strawmanning your argument, right? They are strawmanning the argument against it. Yes, that’s the impression I got out of it too. I disapprove either way. I’d sooner defend a good argument against my point than a bad argument in favour of it. I come to HN for reasoned, thoughtful, curious discussion.

that's three comments so far (now four) discussing if the comment in question adequately adds to the discussion. If you ask me, hyperbole and sarcasm have a place in nearly any exchange of ideas, but maybe I just haven't drank the right kool-aid for this space. I think another, perhaps more relevant reference could be the replacement of hand-painted cells with computer-generated frames for animation. It replaced one…

There are plenty of sarcastic, hyperbolic, dismissive, etc comments on this site. I don’t think you need to gulp down the koolaid or anything.

But the discussion is a little better if we take a little sip every now and then, perhaps even slightly performatively. The “ground-state” of big open Internet discussion sites like this is dismissive and cheap, so it is good to have active pushback occasionally.

Re: Adobe's new image rotation tool is one of the most impressive AI tools seen

#163

Post by ansk »

HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #91
withinboredom wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not anymore.

Not at all - Transformer was invented by a bunch of former Google employees (while at Google), primarily Jakob Uszkoreit and Noam Shazeer. Of course as with anything it builds on what had gone before, but it's really quite a novel architecture.

The scientific impact of the transformer paper is large, but in my opinion the novelty is vastly overstated. The primary novelty is adapting the (already existing) dot-product attention mechanism to be multi-headed. And frankly, the single-head -> multi-head evolution wasn't particularly novel -- it's the same trick the computer vision community applied to convolutions 5 years earlier, yielding the widely-adopted grouped convolution. The lasting contribution of the Transformer paper is really just ordering the existing architectural primitives (attention layers, feedforward layers, normalization, residuals) in a nice, reusable block. In my opinion, the most impactful contributions in the lineage of modern attention-based LLMs are the introduction of dot-product attention (Bahdanau et al, 2015) and the first attention-based sequence-to-sequence model (Graves, 2013). Both of these are from academic labs.

As a side note, a similar phenomenon occurred with the Adam optimizer, where the ratio of public/scientific attribution to novelty is disproportionately large (the Adam optimizer is very minor modification of the RMSProp + momentum optimization algorithm presented in the same Graves, 2013 paper mentioned above)

Re: Adobe's new image rotation tool is one of the most impressive AI tools seen

#165

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

ryandrake wrote: post #10

I'm making some big assumptions about Adobe's product ideation process, but: This seems like the "right" way to approach developing AI products: Find a user need that can't easily be solved with traditional methods and algorithms, decide that AI is appropriate for that thing, and then build an AI system to solve it. Rather than what many BigTech companies are currently doing: "Wall Street says we need to 'Use AI Some…

More like "ship some half baked bullshit wrapper for ChatGPT or llama and call it revolutionary."

Re: Adobe's new image rotation tool is one of the most impressive AI tools seen

#166

Post by bigstrat2003 »

crazygringo wrote: post #94
swatcoder wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's wrong with trying out 100 different AI features across your product suite, and then seeing which ones "stick"? For users ? Almost everything is wrong with that. There are no users looking for wild churn in their user interface, no users crossing their fingers that the feature that stuck for them gets pruned because it didn't hit adoption targets overall, no users hoping for popups and nags interrupting their…

Think about the other side though -- if the tool you've learned and rely on goes out of business because they didn't innovate fast enough, it's a whole lot worse for you now that you have to learn an entirely new tool. And I haven't seen any "wild churn" at all -- like I said in another comment, a few informative popups and a magic wand icon in a toolbar? It's not exactly high on the list of disruptions. I can still…

No, it's way worse if the product I rely on does as you suggest and keeps adding new features just to see what will stick. I hate that sort of behavior with a passion and it is the sort of thing which will make me never do business with a company again.

Re: Adobe's new image rotation tool is one of the most impressive AI tools seen

#168

Post by renegade-otter »

sgerenser wrote: post #155
reaperducer wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But Google does it. If we do it, we will be like Google". Were you in my meeting about 40 minutes ago? Because that's almost exactly what was said. If the big tech companies wanted to be really evil, they could invent a nonsense tech that doesn't work, then watch as all the small upstart competitors bankrupt themselves to replicate it.

Wait, is that why we all have microservices now?

That's exactly right. This appeared before on HN but that's what I wrote about a couple of years back: https://renegadeotter.com/2023/09/10/death-by-a-thousand-mic...

Re: Adobe's new image rotation tool is one of the most impressive AI tools seen

#169

Post by swatcoder »

crazygringo wrote: post #161
swatcoder wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're comparing being 3 months behind on a supplementary software feature that's tucked among dozens of icons on the toolbar with making a hard decision about pivoting your entire megalithic industrial, research, sales, and distribution infrastructure to a radically new technology. The discussion you started is about spamming features to see what sticks, as set against making deliberate, selective product decisions…

Digital photography started out as a supplementary toy as well. And we are starting to witness a gigantic computational infrastructure pivot with GPU's and NPU's and whatnot. Google and Amazon are literally signing nuclear power plant agreements to power it. AI is a radically new technology. Do you remember two years ago when ChatGPT came out, and people here on HN were confidently declaring it was the end of Google…

Startups during their earliest stages are encouraged to throw spaghetti at the wall specifically because they don't yet have a customers to offend. They have nothing to lose from failing fast.

In the 2010's more mature companies explored adopting this same model, especially those that had themselves been founded the decade prior. What came out of it was a lot of spaghetti making a mess all over the walls, and the floors, and the ceiling. There were half-baked ideas everywhere, and a few genuine revolutions, but the quality of pretty much everything tanked.

Optimistically, we now seem to be at the starr of a pendulum swing back from that, but with little time to scrape off all the spaghetti that continues to drag everything down.

Re: Adobe's new image rotation tool is one of the most impressive AI tools seen

#170

Post by bigstrat2003 »

crazygringo wrote: post #161
swatcoder wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're comparing being 3 months behind on a supplementary software feature that's tucked among dozens of icons on the toolbar with making a hard decision about pivoting your entire megalithic industrial, research, sales, and distribution infrastructure to a radically new technology. The discussion you started is about spamming features to see what sticks, as set against making deliberate, selective product decisions…

Digital photography started out as a supplementary toy as well. And we are starting to witness a gigantic computational infrastructure pivot with GPU's and NPU's and whatnot. Google and Amazon are literally signing nuclear power plant agreements to power it. AI is a radically new technology. Do you remember two years ago when ChatGPT came out, and people here on HN were confidently declaring it was the end of Google…

> I'm surprised to be having this conversation on HN, where the start-up ethos reigns supreme.

Many of us are sick to death of the startup ethos. We want tools that work consistently and aren't constantly changing because someone at the company got bored.

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