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MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

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Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#161

Post by herpdyderp »

freedomben wrote: post #126
vundercind wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because all operating systems are terrible but the rest are so incredibly bad that Apple’s are still by far the best, once you add up time saved by features and capabilities and subtract time lost to pain-in-the-ass brokenness. (Two decades on DOS/Windows home series and NT, at least for gaming and sometimes work, twelve years with Linux as my main desktop OS, started on Android for smartphones, before finally giving…

If you've been on a MacBook since 2011 or 2012, it's definitely time to give modern Linux a try. It has come in enormously long way since then. I am not exaggerating when I say, I have a better out of the box experience with Fedora. Then I do with Mac OS. Mac OS certainly has a lot of features, and visually has a great deal of Polish, but it also increasingly has a lot of bugs.

Hard disagree. Every Linux-running personal computer that I use or have used is a terrible experience. Something is always broken, the whole system needs to be hard rebooted at least a few times a week, parts of the OS will randomly stop working each day, the list goes on and on. macOS is not perfect by any means, but at least I can actually get work done on it.

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#162

Post by Volundr »

herpdyderp wrote: post #161
freedomben wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've been on a MacBook since 2011 or 2012, it's definitely time to give modern Linux a try. It has come in enormously long way since then. I am not exaggerating when I say, I have a better out of the box experience with Fedora. Then I do with Mac OS. Mac OS certainly has a lot of features, and visually has a great deal of Polish, but it also increasingly has a lot of bugs.

Hard disagree. Every Linux-running personal computer that I use or have used is a terrible experience. Something is always broken, the whole system needs to be hard rebooted at least a few times a week, parts of the OS will randomly stop working each day, the list goes on and on. macOS is not perfect by any means, but at least I can actually get work done on it.

As a counter anecdote, I run Arch on everything except the MacBook I was issued for work. They've all been running perfectly for years, I can't remember the last time I had an issue that wasn't ZFS failing to compile for a new kernel, and I opted into that problem.

Meanwhile my work Mac every so often decides my external monitor just doesn't exist anymore and I have to reboot with it unplugged, then again with it plugged in to get it back.

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#163

Post by Propelloni »

lukan wrote: post #23
Jerrrrrrry wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They want their TCP/IP stack and safari browser hot and ready for their demanders of instant gratification. In the long run, they barter this goodwill for "Safari is shit" credit until they and Google force the internet until a browser-turned App-Play-Store war. Both companies win, and can blame the other company - all while incentivising anti-competition behavior and benefiting from their own organizational, yet alt…

"they fail to see the systematic risks" Or they also fail at providing a solution. Would you prefer diletantic government intervention in this area instead?

> Would you prefer diletantic government intervention in this area instead?

No, I would like a competent government intervention. Those happen, even if some would rather believe otherwise.

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#164

Post by backtoyoujim »

freedomben wrote: post #126
vundercind wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because all operating systems are terrible but the rest are so incredibly bad that Apple’s are still by far the best, once you add up time saved by features and capabilities and subtract time lost to pain-in-the-ass brokenness. (Two decades on DOS/Windows home series and NT, at least for gaming and sometimes work, twelve years with Linux as my main desktop OS, started on Android for smartphones, before finally giving…

If you've been on a MacBook since 2011 or 2012, it's definitely time to give modern Linux a try. It has come in enormously long way since then. I am not exaggerating when I say, I have a better out of the box experience with Fedora. Then I do with Mac OS. Mac OS certainly has a lot of features, and visually has a great deal of Polish, but it also increasingly has a lot of bugs.

can it send txt messages to a phone ?

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#165

Post by exe34 »

herpdyderp wrote: post #161
freedomben wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've been on a MacBook since 2011 or 2012, it's definitely time to give modern Linux a try. It has come in enormously long way since then. I am not exaggerating when I say, I have a better out of the box experience with Fedora. Then I do with Mac OS. Mac OS certainly has a lot of features, and visually has a great deal of Polish, but it also increasingly has a lot of bugs.

Hard disagree. Every Linux-running personal computer that I use or have used is a terrible experience. Something is always broken, the whole system needs to be hard rebooted at least a few times a week, parts of the OS will randomly stop working each day, the list goes on and on. macOS is not perfect by any means, but at least I can actually get work done on it.

> Something is always broken, the whole system needs to be hard rebooted at least a few times a week

I remember this sort of thing about 15 years ago, but in the last 8 years of nixos, I've maybe hard rebooted twice. I've also only ever rebooted after an upgrade. otherwise I go months with just sleep/wake. I wonder if you have some interesting hardware...

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#166

Post by baq »

iknowstuff wrote: post #153
baq wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IME macOS is easily the most broken and user hostile from a professional developer perspective. Maybe I haven't been using it enough, only 2 years. The hardware is amazing though and no other OS can predictably wake the laptop when opening the lid and not wake it when it's closed, which is kinda a deal breaker for a laptop, so I still use it. Not particularly excited about it, would prefer a Linux laptop if it could…

it’s very cohesive and stable by comparison to Windows. It’s beautifully designed compared to KDE. It’s most similar to gnome. if you’re the kinda guy who sees it as user hostile, I’d wager it’s because you refuse to learn the macOS/gnome paradigm and demand things to be how they were on your windows pc 30 years ago. what os/dwm do u use

I'm not talking about how it looks - I don't care. I can find settings I need when the system implements them no problem.

I'm talking about the gimped OS underneath the eye candy:

- docker sucks compared to native Linux (obviously) and WSL2 (less obvious)

- I have to install BetterDisplay (props to the dev btw, great tool) just to make my perfectly good 25x16 144Hz monitor not look like shit

- I have to install a tool to invert my mouse scroll wheel

- I have to install a tool to manage windows in a sane way (sequoia only just started to know how to do that but it's a looong way ahead)

- I have to install a tool to have multiple things in the clipboard

- Sequoia broke the system firewall and it's still not fixed in 15.0.1 (my mac is enterprise issued and it has all the fancy security apps you've all heard about)

I ran out of time to keep going, these are what I'm running into daily. Fortunately there are tools, but every major macOS release breaks some of them.

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#167

Post by tsimionescu »

freedomben wrote: post #126
vundercind wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because all operating systems are terrible but the rest are so incredibly bad that Apple’s are still by far the best, once you add up time saved by features and capabilities and subtract time lost to pain-in-the-ass brokenness. (Two decades on DOS/Windows home series and NT, at least for gaming and sometimes work, twelve years with Linux as my main desktop OS, started on Android for smartphones, before finally giving…

If you've been on a MacBook since 2011 or 2012, it's definitely time to give modern Linux a try. It has come in enormously long way since then. I am not exaggerating when I say, I have a better out of the box experience with Fedora. Then I do with Mac OS. Mac OS certainly has a lot of features, and visually has a great deal of Polish, but it also increasingly has a lot of bugs.

I very much doubt that. I tried installing Fedora on my new laptop, and the defaults are horrible. It doesn't even support two-finger gestures on the login screen, so you have to right click in a different way before logging in.

At least it's not as bad as Ubuntu, which allowed me with a simple warning to install Nvidia drivers without a full system update, which broke the system so badly it couldn't even boot anymore, o an otherwise newly installed setup.

And Debian is horrible too, it doesn't even have a task bar of any kind (you are forced to Alt tab to switch apps, or even see which other apps are running), unless you go hunting for some extensions someone made.

All of these can be made to work decently, but calling it a good out of the box experience is laughable.

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#168

Post by stiltzkin »

herpdyderp wrote: post #161
freedomben wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've been on a MacBook since 2011 or 2012, it's definitely time to give modern Linux a try. It has come in enormously long way since then. I am not exaggerating when I say, I have a better out of the box experience with Fedora. Then I do with Mac OS. Mac OS certainly has a lot of features, and visually has a great deal of Polish, but it also increasingly has a lot of bugs.

Hard disagree. Every Linux-running personal computer that I use or have used is a terrible experience. Something is always broken, the whole system needs to be hard rebooted at least a few times a week, parts of the OS will randomly stop working each day, the list goes on and on. macOS is not perfect by any means, but at least I can actually get work done on it.

[dead]

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#170

Post by airstrike »

talldayo wrote: post #139
MichaelZuo wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever tried to compare something like Ubuntu or RHEL on a per feature per function basis with Mac OS? There are literally thousands of possible combinations of accessibility features alone, that are vastly more difficult to impossible to access. Or simply don’t exist in any form. Once you add in all the default apps and functions of Mac OS, there’s likely millions of possible combinations that would take a fo…

> Have you ever tried to compare something like Ubuntu or RHEL on a per feature per function basis with Mac OS? Yes? Why would people recommend it as an alternative otherwise? I used MacOS for 5 years, left after Mojave and came back when an employer made me support MacOS. The current software experience on Mac is genuinely insufferable. Advertisements in your news, notifications begging you to try Safari, zero suppo…

> As a software developer, what pushed me over the edge was Docker. It runs absolutely terrible on MacOS, consumes resources/battery and makes your CPU hot as satan's taint.

Thanks for saying this. I own an M2 Max Macbook, which is my very first Macbook, and I tried Docker the other day only to find it was literally unplayable.

I then recalled running Docker forever ago on a much shittier Windows laptop and it was sort of a breeze? I was confused as to why I couldn't have the same experience now.

Thanks to you, at least I know this is unlikely to be a case of PEBKAC

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