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Large language models reduce public knowledge sharing on online Q&A platforms

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Re: Large language models reduce public knowledge sharing on online Q&A platforms

#161

It’s been a relief to find a platform where I can ask questions without the fear of being humiliated Half joking, but I am pretty tired of SO pedantry.

Many of the forums I enjoyed in the past have become heavily burdened by rules, processes, and expectations. They are frequented by people who spend hours every day reading everything and calling out any misstep.

Some of them are so overburdened that navigating all of the rules and expectations becomes a skill in itself. A single innocent misstep turns simple questions into lectures about how you’ve violated the rules.

One Slack I joined has created a Slackbot to enforce these rules. It became a game in itself for people to add new rules to the bot. Now it triggers on a large dictionary of problematic words such as “blind” (potentially offensive to people with vision impairments. Don’t bother discussing poker.). It gives a stern warning if anyone accidentally says “crazy” (offensive to those with mental health problems) or “you guys” (how dare you be so sexist).

They even created a rule that you have to make sure someone wants advice about a situation before offering it, because a group of people decided it was too presumptuous and potentially sexist (I don’t know how) for people to give advice when the other person may have only wanted to vent. This creates the weirdest situations where someone posts a question in channels named “Help and advice” and then lurkers wait to jump on anyone who offers advice if the question wasn’t explicitly phrased in a way that unequivocally requested advice.

It’s all so very tiresome to navigate. Some people appear to thrive in this environment where there are rules for everything. People who memorize and enforce all of the rules on others get to operate a tiny little power trip while opening an opportunity to lecture internet strangers all day.

It’s honestly refreshing to go from that to asking an LLM that you know isn’t going to turn your question into a lecture on social issues because you used a secretly problematic word or broke rule #73 on the ever growing list of community rules.

Re: Large language models reduce public knowledge sharing on online Q&A platforms

#162
post #118

It’s been a relief to find a platform where I can ask questions without the fear of being humiliated Half joking, but I am pretty tired of SO pedantry.

The flipside to this is you can’t get answers to anything _recent_, since the models are trained years behind in content. My feelig is it’s getting increasingly difficult to figure out issues on the latest version of libraries & tools, as the only options are private Discords (which aren’t even googleable)

The models come out fast enough

Doesn’t seem to be a great strategy to always need these things retrained, but OpenAI’s o1 has things from early 2024

Don’t ask about knowledge cutoffs anymore, that’s not how these things are trained these days. They don’t know their names or the date.

Re: Large language models reduce public knowledge sharing on online Q&A platforms

#163
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first time that I asked a question on #cpp @Freenode was a unique experience for my younger self. My message contained greetings and the question in the same message. I was banned immediately and the response from the mods was: - do not greet; we don't have time for that bullshit - do not use natural language questions; submit a test case and we will understand what you mean through your code - do not abbreviate…

A one week ban on the first message is clearly gatekeeping. What a bunch of jerks. A 1 hour ban would have been a lot more appropriate, and escalate from there if the person can't follow the rules. Don't even get me started about how dumb rule 2 is, though. And rule 3 doesn't even work for normal English as many things are abbreviated, e.g. this example. And of course, you didn't greet and wait, you just put a pleasa…

> And of course, you didn't greet and wait, you just put a pleasantry in the same message. Jeez.

I'm pretty sure that "rule" was more aimed towards "just ask your question" rather than "greet, make smalltalk, then ask your question".

I have similar rules, though I don't communicate them as aggressively, and don't ban people for breaking them, I just don't reply to greetings coming from people I know aren't looking to talk to me to ask me how I've been. It's a lot easier if you send the question you have instead of sending "Hi, how are you?" and then wait for 3 minutes to type out your question.

Re: Large language models reduce public knowledge sharing on online Q&A platforms

#164

The problem is eventually what are LLMs going’s to draw from? They’re not creating new information, just regurgitating and combining existing info. That’s why they perform so poorly on code for which there aren’t many many publicly available samples, SO/reddit answers etc.

> The problem is eventually what are LLMs going’s to draw from? Published documentation. I'm going to make up a number but I'll defend it: 90% of the information content of stackoverflow is regurgitated from some manual somewhere. The problem is that the specific information you're looking for in the relevant documentation is often hard to find, and even when found is often hard to read. LLMs are fantastic at reading…

Published documentation has been and can be wrong. In the late 1990's and early 2000's when I still did a mix of Microsoft technologies and Java, I found several bad non-obvious errors in MSDN documentation. AI today would likely regurgitate it in a soft but seemingly mild but arguably authoritative sounding way. At least when discussing with real people after the arrows fly and the dust settles, we can figure out the truth.

Re: Large language models reduce public knowledge sharing on online Q&A platforms

#165
post #8

Stackoverflow mods and power users being arseholes reduces the use of Stackoverflow. ChatGPT is just the first viable alternative.

It's an interesting question. The world has had 30 years to come up with a StackOverflow alternative with friendly mods. It hasn't. So the question is that has someone tried hard enough or can it be done it the first place. I am Stack overflow mod, dealing with other mods. There is definitely unnecessary hostility there, but most of question closes and downvotes Go 90% to low quality questiond which lack proper profe…

The model of QA that Stack Overflow and its various forks follow the same approach struggle with the 90/9/1 problem ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule ).

Q&A was designed to handle the social explosion problem and the eternal September problems by having a larger percent of the username take an interest in the community over time and continue to maintain that ideal. Things like comments and discussions being difficult is part of the design to make it so that you don't get protracted discussions that in turn needs more moderation resources.

The fraction of the people doing the curation and moderation of the site overall has dropped. The reasons for that drop are manyfold. I believe that much of it falls squarely upon Stack Overflow corporate without considering second order effects of engaging and managing the community of people who are interested in the success of the site as they envision.

Ultimately, Stack Overflow has become too successful and the people looking to it now have a different vision for what it should be that comes into conflict with both the design of the site and the vision of the core group.

While Stack Overflow can thrive with a smaller number of people asking "good" (yes, very subjective) questions it has difficulty when it strays into questions that need discussion (which its design comes into conflict with) or too many questions for the committed core group to maintain. Smaller sites can (and do) have a larger fraction of the user base committed to the goals of the site and in turn are able to provide more individual guidance - while Stack Overflow has long gone past that point.

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Stack Overflow and its Q&A format that has been often copied works for certain sized user bases. It needs enough people to keep it interesting, but it fails to scale when too many people participate who have a different idea of what questions should be there.

There is a lack of moderation tools for the core user base to be able to manage it at scale (you will note the history of Stack Overflow has been removing and restricting moderation tools until it gets "too" bad - see also removal of 20k users helping with flag handling and the continued rescoping of close reasons).

Until someone comes up with a fundamentally different approach that is able to handle moderation at scale or sufficient barriers for new accounts (to handle the Eternal September problem), we are going to continue to see Stack Overflow clones spout and die on the vine along with a continued balkanization of knowledge in smaller areas that are able handle vision and moderation at a smaller scale.

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Every attempt at a site I've seen since (and I include things like Lemmy in this which did a "copy reddit" and then worry (or not) about moderation) have started from a "get popular, then work on the moderation problem" which is ultimately too late to really solve the problem. The tools for moderation need to be baked into the design from the start.

Re: Large language models reduce public knowledge sharing on online Q&A platforms

#166
post #93

The authors claim that LLM are reducing public knowledge sharing and that the effect is not merely displacing duplicate, low-quality, or beginner-level content. However their claim is weak and the effect is not quite as sensational as they make it sound. First, they only present Figure 3 and not regression results for their suggested tests of LLMs being substitutes of bad quality posts. In contrast, they report tests…

While this article doesn’t really seem to be hitting what I am about to say, I think someone on HN a while back described a related phenomenon (which leads to the same issue) really well. The Internet is Balkanizing. This is hardly a new concept but they were drilling down specifically into online communities. People are electing to not freely share information on public forums like they used to. They are retreating…

Yes, it's sad. On the other hand, I think it's a good thing that people share knowledge less, publicly and free of charge on the web, because there is so much exploitation going on. Big corporations obviously capitalize on the good will of people with their LLMs, but there are also others who take advantage of the ones who want to help. A lot of users seemingly expect others to solve their problems for free and don't even put any effort into asking their questions. It's a massive drain for energy and enthusiasm, some even suffer from burnout (I assume more in open-source projects than on SO but still). I rather want it to be harder to connect with people sharing the same passion "in private" than having outsider who don't contribute anything profit off of activities happening in the open. This frustratingly appears to become the main reason for corporate open source these days.

Re: Large language models reduce public knowledge sharing on online Q&A platforms

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The management of these walled gardens will keep saying that to your face as they sell your contributions. Meanwhile your family gets nothing.

Did your family get anything from you sharing this opinion? If not, why did you share it? Are you suggesting that your personal motivations for posting this cynicism are reasonable but that similar motivations that are altruistic for helping someone are not?

Sharing this opinion doesn't sacrifice my primary economic utility, and in fact disseminates a sentiment that if more widespread would empower everyone to realize more of the value they offer. Please do train an LLM to inform people to seek licensing arrangements for the expertise they provide.

Re: Large language models reduce public knowledge sharing on online Q&A platforms

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That contradiction is funny, tho: > - do not greet; we don't have time for that bullshit and > do not abbreviate words (you have abbreviated "you" as "u"); if you do not have time to type the words, we do not have time to read them So they have apparently enough time to read full words, it seems!

Yh u gtta b c00l w abbrvs

The noobs don't got how we get where we get?

edit: I remember how some communities changed into: The help isn't good enough, you should help harder, I want you to help me by these conventions. Then they leave after getting their answer and no one has seen them ever again rather than join the help desk.

Re: Large language models reduce public knowledge sharing on online Q&A platforms

#169
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flipside to this is you can’t get answers to anything _recent_, since the models are trained years behind in content. My feelig is it’s getting increasingly difficult to figure out issues on the latest version of libraries & tools, as the only options are private Discords (which aren’t even googleable)

The models come out fast enough Doesn’t seem to be a great strategy to always need these things retrained, but OpenAI’s o1 has things from early 2024 Don’t ask about knowledge cutoffs anymore, that’s not how these things are trained these days. They don’t know their names or the date.

Not my daily experience. It’s been impossible to get relevant answers to questions on multiple languages and frameworks, no matter the model. O1 frequently generates code using deprecated libraries (and is unable to fix it with iteration).

Not to mention there will be no data for the model to learn the new stuff anyway, since places like SO will get zero responses with the new stuff for the model to crawl

Re: Large language models reduce public knowledge sharing on online Q&A platforms

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did your family get anything from you sharing this opinion? If not, why did you share it? Are you suggesting that your personal motivations for posting this cynicism are reasonable but that similar motivations that are altruistic for helping someone are not?

Sharing this opinion doesn't sacrifice my primary economic utility, and in fact disseminates a sentiment that if more widespread would empower everyone to realize more of the value they offer. Please do train an LLM to inform people to seek licensing arrangements for the expertise they provide.

That’s just dumb, man. You’re not sacrificing anything by giving someone a helpful answer.
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