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Iranian writer is sentenced to 12 years after tweeting a dot at supreme leader

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Re: Iranian writer is sentenced to 12 years after tweeting a dot at supreme leader

#161

Post by eigenket »

throw10920 wrote: post #156
eigenket wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't lie, I got the wrong guy because you weren't specific. In the context of his tweet I think it was clearly a call to violence. Almost always is not the same as always.

> I got the wrong guy because you weren't specific That doesn't make it any less of a lie - you said something factually false about the person I was referring to. You also made an assumption that you knew could be false in order to push a political agenda and deceive others. > Almost always is not the same as always. This is grasping for straws, and has the tyrannical premise of "guilty until proven innocent" behind…

> and has the tyrannical premise of "guilty until proven innocent" behind it

No it doesn't, for three reasons.

1. This is an internet forum not a court of law

2. He already plead guilty to his crime and been convicted, hes no longer in the "innocent until proven guilty" phase

3. Calling for violence wasn't even the crime he was convicted of. That was "publishing written material to stir up racial hate" [1].

Now you can reasonably say (and I expect you would) that you don't think that publishing written material to stir up racial hate should be a crime. Personally I think it should, because stirring up racial hatred is pretty damaging.

[1] https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/64/part/III/crossh...

Re: Iranian writer is sentenced to 12 years after tweeting a dot at supreme leader

#162

Post by avodonosov »

hippich wrote: post #144
avodonosov wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Look up what for people in Belarus are being locked up daily .... simply caught with preview of the news cached on their phone I live in Belarus, haven't heard of anyone locked for news cached on their phone. Could you provide sources of that info? I read all kinds of news, what if I am in danger...

I can't find it easily now, but it was Zerkalo reporting on yet another person returning to Belarus caught at the Poland border. The conclusion was that despite not being subscribed to one of the "terrorists channel" (for readers not from Belarus - news channels, that are posting news not in favor of the state), mere opening such channel will cache images from such channel locally. When authorities grab the phone, th…

If you find the source in the coming days, while the HN thread is not yet blocked for posting - please share. I'd like to be aware of facts like this.

Question. If you read Belarusian news, have you noticed that tut.by, being a quite decent, balanced news site in, say, 2013, 2014, in last years of its existence, maybe 2018, 2019, 2020 was quickly degrading, somewhere towards the Radio of the Thousand Hills? Deliberately falsifying the picture of reality for its readers?

(Personally, by the beginning of 2020, long before the election, I had a text in mind, called "Осторожно, tut.by". Just didn't have time to write it up and publish.)

Re: Iranian writer is sentenced to 12 years after tweeting a dot at supreme leader

#163

Post by red-iron-pine »

kurthr wrote: post #64
mapt wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A liberal prohibition on violent speech is an aspirational privilege of a people who have solved all their social problems to such a degree that the credible threat of violence is never necessary for justice or progress. Or an aspirational privilege of an aristocracy who have solved all of their material problems at the expense of everybody else, and demand militant proactive protection of their hoard and their perso…

I don't remember the effective social movements and resulting changes in society you describe coming from threats of violence (in the US). Whether it was suffrage or labor rights, the greatest power for violence was always with the status quo and not with those protesting. Often violence has brought about change in perception opposite to its intent. This was true in civil rights, gay rights, antiwar, and labor moveme…

The only reason you have a 40 hour workday are due to constant rioting and unrest. these strikes weren't just unhappy people with picket signs, they literally "called in the Pinkertons" to beat them into submission, and most of the strikes going back to the 1800s had some component of violence.

Apropos of the date, the Pullman Strikes are the reason we have Labor Day as a national holiday. 70 people died during that strike and around 60 more were seriously wounded. Violence was common during strikes in the 1800s, but Pullman was especially chaotic -- but par for the course as global labor struggles went.

Re: Iranian writer is sentenced to 12 years after tweeting a dot at supreme leader

#164

Post by limit499karma »

avodonosov wrote: post #90
Dibby053 wrote: post #83

Buried under the rest of the article is this, since some people only do headlines I'll copy it here for visibility: >Shanbehzadeh was sentenced to five years for alleged pro-Israel propaganda activity, four years for insulting Islamic sanctities, two years for spreading lies online and an additional year for anti-regime propaganda. >His lawyer, Amir Raisian, told Shargh Network, a reformist newspaper in Iran, that he…

I sometimes asked people on HN, what news sites they consider to be of decent quality. And npr.org was recommended several times. Seeing this cheap manipulative article suggests they were mistaken. PS. Maybe his 12 years sentence is completely unjust, I don't know. But titles like this... How about "A man is sentenced to death after having cofee for breakfast" for an article about Charles Manson? (I suppose he had co…

Their source is Iran International and that outfit is propaganda and agitprop oriented. It is as unbiased as their opposite number PressTV (run by IRI) or RT (Russian) or an ideologically committed red/blue outfit in US.

These days Reuters is the closest thing to relatively unbiased reporting in the West. imo.

Re: Iranian writer is sentenced to 12 years after tweeting a dot at supreme leader

#165

Post by Hizonner »

fsckboy wrote: post #123
Hizonner wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only one of those that's illegal just to visit in the US as far as I know is the child porn one, and even that only if you receive or attempt to receive actual child porn, as opposed to some other random content that might be on the site. Some of the things you list are actual criminal acts, not Web sites. Yes, if you stalk your ex, that's criminal, but simply visiting some Web site is not in itself illegal. If t…

if you internet searched "how do you dispose of a body" and then a body is discoved having been disposed of, and you are suspected in the killing, that evidence is introduced at your trial, and a jury will be influenced by it, even though all you did was visit and read the site. That evidence will be even more damning if the page you visited described a particular method that was seen in the case in question. This wo…

... and yet it is not illegal to do that search. You will not be fined, imprisoned, or whatever, for doing the search.

The fact that something can, in some circumstances, be evidence doesn't mean it's a crime, and the distinction is absolutely critical in the context we're dealing with here.

Re: Iranian writer is sentenced to 12 years after tweeting a dot at supreme leader

#166

Post by tasuki »

GrassTheBikes wrote: post #141
snehk wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Add Germany to that list. A girl was sentenced to actual jail for insulting a rapist who was spared jail. Absolute madness.

Ursula Haverbeck always merits a mention too. Imagine people imprisoning a 90 year old woman for refusing to adopt their imposed narrative of a historical period in which she actively lived and participated .

> in which she actively lived and participated.

Yes... ? She participated... on the side of the Nazis who murdered Jews? She even threatened Jews with "a new pogrom"? I'd imprison her all right!

Re: Iranian writer is sentenced to 12 years after tweeting a dot at supreme leader

#167

Post by 34679 »

mmmBacon wrote: post #88
34679 wrote: post #76

Voice of America is a US government propaganda outlet that was barred from broadcasting directly to US citizens until the Smith-Mundt Act was amended in 2013. VoA is the primary source for this article.

Seems like you are trying to discredit the source as a way to get people to question the facts. The facts are that this story has been widely reported. It’s well documented that the Iranian government persecutes and foments violence against authors critical to their regime.

Or maybe I'm just not a fan of war propaganda?

I don't care if you question the facts or not. I want you to question the motives.

Re: Iranian writer is sentenced to 12 years after tweeting a dot at supreme leader

#168

Post by BrandoElFollito »

feedforward wrote: post #42
boomboomsubban wrote: post #36

I'm not defending Iran over this, I fully expect his imprisonment to be for a reason I would consider bullshit, but this article doesn't present much evidence that the two events in the title have any connection. He tweeted a dot, at some point after was arrested. Technically the article never says the dot is related to the arrest, but it's certainly implied.

In 2010 there was an international campaign of clemency for an Iranian woman who was going to get the death penalty. The campaign said she was imprisoned for adultery. She was in prison for adultery - and also murdering her husband, with her lover's help. This part was always left out of the news reports on this, at least initially.

She was accused of the murder and acquitted. The stoning to death penalty was for adultery.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/jul/02/iranian-woman-...

Re: Iranian writer is sentenced to 12 years after tweeting a dot at supreme leader

#169

Post by hippich »

avodonosov wrote: post #162
hippich wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't find it easily now, but it was Zerkalo reporting on yet another person returning to Belarus caught at the Poland border. The conclusion was that despite not being subscribed to one of the "terrorists channel" (for readers not from Belarus - news channels, that are posting news not in favor of the state), mere opening such channel will cache images from such channel locally. When authorities grab the phone, th…

If you find the source in the coming days, while the HN thread is not yet blocked for posting - please share. I'd like to be aware of facts like this. Question. If you read Belarusian news, have you noticed that tut.by, being a quite decent, balanced news site in, say, 2013, 2014, in last years of its existence, maybe 2018, 2019, 2020 was quickly degrading, somewhere towards the Radio of the Thousand Hills? Deliberat…

I did not notice deliberate attempts like that, but in the vacuum created post 2020 there is not much left to be trusted besides zerkalo. They rely on sources they likely can not verify all the time, and as such they do make mistakes occasionally and post corrections - this indeed happens from time to time. If you have suggestions of better source of news - please share.
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