Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 207 posts

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#161

Post by lobocinza »

glenndebacker wrote: post #154
seydor wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one thing leading to the other. It is what it is. Are the judge's (possibly illegal) moves motivated by interpretation of the law or by personal vendetta? Hard to tell , but i'm glad for less censorship.

What illegal actions? I did some research instead of blindly following our so-called genius who claims it's against Brazilian constitutional law because Starlink is a separate entity. It actually appears to be perfectly legal and in line with the law. "However, Brazilian law, specifically the Civil Code and the Consumer Defense Code, includes a mechanism known as "desconsideração da personalidade jurídica" (piercing…

And where is the proven link between X and Starlink?

Edit: My comment may have sounded stupid because obviously Musk ownership is a link between both companies though this isn't by itself a valid reason to pierce the corporate veil in Brazilian law. The fundamental criteria is patrimonial confusion and so far I've not seem evidence that X operation was intertwined with Starlink. The only thing is the self-fulfilling hypothesis that people will use Starlink to circumvent the blocking of X.

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#162

Post by lobocinza »

guax wrote: post #138
matheusmoreira wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People can do whatever they want. They just need to accept the consequences. I post my comments here knowing there's a risk this judge might learn of my existence and persecute me for them. I chose to accept that risk because I find this situation to appalling to keep quiet about it. This wasn't a choice I made lightly. My own parents who lived through last century's military dictatorship recognized the signs and ask…

> I post my comments here knowing there's a risk this judge might learn of my existence and persecute me for them My brother in Christ. There is ZERO chance of this to happen for this kind of comment and to me It only tells me you need to distance yourself a bit from this. Focus on something positive for a week. You're going down a path that is so far outside the realm of possibilities at this time that's worrisome.

Unfortunately HN doesn't allow for deleting an account or old comments and it would be mostly pointless anyway because 3rd parties will archive them. While the probability of information posted here reaching Moraes is virtually zero it is very possibly in the future this information will be analyzed by large teams or automated systems and could lead to issues with authority. The future is unpredictable and this is not without precedent in countries like China and Russia. Even in Brazil I believe there are cases where people where arrested or at least fined for liking or sharing a post.

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#163

Post by _heimdall »

ta1243 wrote: post #157
_heimdall wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Free speech is a good thing AS LONG AS it respect the country laws. In France, the People decided democratically (through their elected representatives) against some kinds of so-called "free speech" (for example: racism apology). That's OUR choice, on OUR territory (like it or not: rule your own country but not mine). Why should X be allowed to refuse to respect the France laws on the french territory (resp. Europe…

The US banns a lot of stuff too, from porn to sharing songs. A major problem with online discourse about "free speech" is that is so ameri-centric. American view on what's allowed is the only definition that counts.

Well I can't speak for anyone else, but I come from the US and have a view of free speech that is decidedly in conflict with how America handles speech today.

I disagree with the bans we already have on the books and find the phrase "free speech absolutism" to be ridiculous. Speech is either free or it isn't. There's nothing wrong with being concerned enough with certain types of speech that the society collectively agrees to ban it, but they no longer have free speech.

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#164

Post by nec4b »

ldbooth wrote: post #152

I just wish this guy would take the loss and sell twitter and go back to being an uncontroversial tech legend. Mixing with Social media has corrupted every positive thing he has done and maybe will do if he keeps it up at the current pace. People tire of the drama king. If you don't know what I mean.. he said his transgender child is dead to him in a publicly aired interview. That's where this guy is in his personal…

>>I just wish this guy would take the loss and sell twitter and go back to being an uncontroversial tech legend.

Why do you care, he is spending his own money. Isn't it more important that we now know Brazil has no rule of law. A single party overtook all the subsystems in the country and now Brazil is in the company of countries like Iran or North Korea regarding X censorship. Eye opening is also how many people would condemn an entire nation to censorship only to see one guy they don't like hurt.

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#165

Post by nec4b »

olivierduval wrote: post #55

Sorry I don't get: how is possible to find anybody defending Musk when the Supreme Court of a democracy ruled to exclude X from the country ? Free speech is a good thing AS LONG AS it respect the country laws. In France, the People decided democratically (through their elected representatives) against some kinds of so-called "free speech" (for example: racism apology). That's OUR choice, on OUR territory (like it or…

There are a bunch of countries calling them selves democratic in name but are anything but that in reality. If in France in the future people democratically decide racism apology is fine, you would have no problem with that?

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#166

Post by Gud »

cassianoleal wrote: post #136
Gud wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because that speech could (presumably, can never be sure what’s allowed in a quasi-democracy) take place on another website.

Yes but it wouldn't be subjected to Musk's censorship on Random Website, whereas on Twitter it is.

Yes, but if the government censors it, it’s forbidden on both. Surely you muse see the difference?

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#167

Post by [deleted] »

nec4b wrote: post #164
ldbooth wrote: post #152

I just wish this guy would take the loss and sell twitter and go back to being an uncontroversial tech legend. Mixing with Social media has corrupted every positive thing he has done and maybe will do if he keeps it up at the current pace. People tire of the drama king. If you don't know what I mean.. he said his transgender child is dead to him in a publicly aired interview. That's where this guy is in his personal…

>>I just wish this guy would take the loss and sell twitter and go back to being an uncontroversial tech legend. Why do you care, he is spending his own money. Isn't it more important that we now know Brazil has no rule of law. A single party overtook all the subsystems in the country and now Brazil is in the company of countries like Iran or North Korea regarding X censorship. Eye opening is also how many people wou…

[deleted]

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#168

Post by ldbooth »

nec4b wrote: post #164
ldbooth wrote: post #152

I just wish this guy would take the loss and sell twitter and go back to being an uncontroversial tech legend. Mixing with Social media has corrupted every positive thing he has done and maybe will do if he keeps it up at the current pace. People tire of the drama king. If you don't know what I mean.. he said his transgender child is dead to him in a publicly aired interview. That's where this guy is in his personal…

>>I just wish this guy would take the loss and sell twitter and go back to being an uncontroversial tech legend. Why do you care, he is spending his own money. Isn't it more important that we now know Brazil has no rule of law. A single party overtook all the subsystems in the country and now Brazil is in the company of countries like Iran or North Korea regarding X censorship. Eye opening is also how many people wou…

You are overstating enforcement of corporate laws vs. a government censoring an entire nation. Similarly banning X in the US would not be censorship if the company flouted and refused to obey US laws.

He is spending many people's money, not just his own. He's human, he can be both a tech legend and a polarizing, drama-magnet of a human being, I just lament him leaning into the latter when the benefit is winning a pissing match.

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#169

Post by Timon3 »

mike_hearn wrote: post #151
fmajid wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just leftists, but also journalists critical of him: https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/x-journalist-ban-elon-mus... His so-called free-speech absolutism is a sham and he does not deserve the benefit of doubt on this.

He didn't ban any of those people: > All the accounts were restored in a few hours

What state were they restored to? If they were accessible, why did they have to be restored?

If you're going to argue "a ban doesn't count if it's reversed after a couple of hours", what's the threshold? Could Elon ban people for a week without it counting as a ban? What if it happens repeatedly?

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#170

Post by postepowanieadm »

throw0101d wrote: post #119
cjpearson wrote: post #2

Is this a principled defense of free speech or a case of a man treating ostensibly independent companies as divisions of his personal conglomerate?

> Is this a principled defense of free speech or a case of a man treating ostensibly independent companies as divisions of his personal conglomerate? Musk was happy to block Twitter content for Erdoğan before the 2023 Turkish election,[0][1] and block Ukraine from using it to hit the Russian navy.[2] [0] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/05/musk-defends-ena... [1] https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2023/05/twitte…

Ukrainians used twitter to hit the russian navy?
Post reply on HN